Hollow points question

[RAfiringline]

My limited knowledge of hollow points is that they tend to be a little more accurate due to the weight distribution of the bullet, and that some are designed to expand inside the target mass.

I’ve seen hollow point bullets without any longitudinal slits to facilitate expansion and I assume those are strictly for accuracy purposes. But I've also seen hollow points with slits that are only described as target ammunition - I've got about 800 rounds of Geco 9mm like that, that I bought cheap (22 cents a rd.). I don't know if they're labeling it like that for political correctness, or what. I doubt that those slits do anything to enhance accuracy.

Does anybody have any light to shed on this? When I look at these Geco rounds, they look like HP self-defence ammo to me.

 

[Skeets]

Hollow Point Slits?

Some of these appear to me as only an attempt"to build a prettier mouse trap.

 

[Slimjim9]

Good question. I just got some of the Freedom Munitions 125gr HP .38 to try as the muzzle velocity is listed as higher than the 125gr FP load that I wasn't very pleased with. It also is listed as accurate but not ideal for defense. I only shot about 25 rounds but it did seem fairly accurate out of my LCR and at 26¢/round, it might be my new practice round for that gun. My current preference is a 130gr load from Magtech or Remington but the FM is cheaper and a little less recoil.

I'm thinking these kind of loads are labeled like this for liability purposes. Either the design is such that they don't expand (or not reliably) or the company doesn't want to do the kind of QC necessary to bill it as an SD load.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Wilson Combat sells a .45 ACP match round that's a hollow-point (using a Hornady bullet, I believe) with no notches. It's very accurate, but without the notches it won't expand (at least, it's not designed to expand).

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/45-ACP-...FPS-5-Barrel-100_Box/productinfo/A45-200-HAP/

 

[ifithitu]

I use hollow points in my two 380's,to have a little more punch so to speak.

 

[hornetguy]

The way I understand it, is that any hollowpoint loaded in handgun ammunition is intended to expand. Whether or not they do, is dependent on the velocity at which it is launched, and the vagaries of other items that must be penetrated before striking flesh.

Handgun HP's don't necessarily "need" notches, or slits, etc... but some are designed that way, by the engineers that came up with them.

The only HP bullets I know of that are for "accuracy" and not expansion, are match rifle bullets.

 

[g.willikers]

^^^
Don't believe I've ever run across any hollow point bullet for any handgun that was more accurate than a good ole' lead semi wadcutter.
The extra length of the wadcutter for a given weight, allows for more rifling engagement.
Although the sizing of bullet to bore and choice of powder and load are at least as important for accuracy as the bullet design.
Focusing on just one aspect can be misleading.

 

[BigJimP]

I don't think a "hollow point" by design is more inherently accurate either.

Most of us carry Hollow Points for Defense ...but primarily shoot less expensive "range or target ammo"...that we reload / or buy retail.

I primarily shoot FMJ RN bullets ( Montana Gold ) in a variety of calibers - that I reload - for my range practice. All of my practice ammo - is very accurate / not that my carry ammo isn't ...but I think in terms of accuracy - especially out to 15 yds they're about the same. Some of the less expensive retail ammo - is not very consistent in terms of accuracy - compared to my own reloads with what I consider to be a premium bullet.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...don't think a "hollow point" by design is more inherently accurate either..." Applies to rifle bullets, but not usually to pistol bullets. Velocity matters. Cheaper to produce HAP's out of XTP's for Hornady though. However, if you drive a HAP fast enough, it's going to expand.
A good ole' lead semi wad cutter will expand to about twice it's diameter if it hits something hardish like a bone or muscle too.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

Some of these appear to me as only an attempt"to build a prettier mouse trap.

I doubt it. In 35 years, I've never met an engineer who included something in a design simply to "build a prettier mousetrap." From a manufacturing standpoint, it makes even less sense because every additional feature has the potential to increase manufacturing cost.

With self-defense loads, the longitudinal lines are put on the bullet to better control formation of the petals during expansion.

My best guess is that it is cheaper to leave the manufacturing process setup for the lines in the bullets for all types of ammunition as the bullet production line does not have to be changed for a different type of outer jacket design.

Or, the only difference between Geco target loads and self-defense ammunition is the target loads are brass cases and the self-defense loads are nickel plated for corrosion protection.

As you can see, I can think of several reasons - none of them having to do with performance as a target load, but being part of a manufacturing process decision.

 

[Boncrayon]

Hollow points begin to expand as the bullet meets clothing and bone thus loosing some of its energy. Hornady Critical Duty remains unclogged in hardened entry before it opens for soft tissue damage. It met all 12 requirement of the CIA and Honady collaboration.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The way I understand it, is that any hollowpoint loaded in handgun ammunition is intended to expand.

Respectfully, I believe your understanding is not correct. The Wilson match ammo to which I posted a link a few posts above uses a Hornady HAP hollow-point bullet with no notches, and it is not intended to expand. In fact, Hornady's web site confirms that the notches are for the purpose of facilitating expansion, and for the HAP bullet they omitted the notches because expansion is not needed for competition shooting.

http://www.hornady.com/store/HAP-Hornady-Action-Pistol

 

[hornetguy]

I stand corrected on that...

I didn't see any data or reasoning on the Hornady page as to why they use a HP style for "match" shooting.

I have read that HP rifle bullets are more accurate due to the "weight rearward" tendencies that somehow make them more stable in flight.

Personally, I don't see how a stubby pistol bullet would benefit from that, but I'm not an engineer (and I don't play one on TV )

That's interesting to see. There has to be some reason for it, though, because I imagine a HP design is more costly to manufacture than a FMJ of the same shape.

Interesting.

 

[SansSouci]

HI RAFiringline,

About all I can contribute about hollow points is that I'd never expend them to expand. If they do, great. And I'm not sold on hollow points being better than ball ammo. I'm a momentum guy as opposed to a very popular kinetic energy disciple. I want a bullet that makes two holes: one going in and one going out: lot's of blood out and lots of air in. But if a hollow point has sufficient penetration and provides that possibility of expanding, I'll go with it. I can't lose if it makes two holes.

 

[mete]

In the early days of HPs , Speer went through a series of 45acp bullets .
JSP, JHP [like the SP but with a very small HP no significant expansion], JHP with large 1/4" HP and scored in 12 places .This would expand on ANYTHING ! A close range hit on a woodchuck in the shoulder spine area would NOT exit ! This apparently had too much expansion so then they had a JHP without scoring which worked much better.
Tell the bullet maker what you want and they will make it !! Of course the " what you want" seems to vary widely !
The silly "expends all the energy in the target" is mostly a myth since "energy" has little to do with it. You must "penetrate" and damage vital organs to be effective !

 

[Shimpy]

A jacketed bullet is swagged with a lead core. Hard ball bullets have an open base which is not uniform and square. A hollow point bullet has a solid base which is swaged square with the OD in a precision die. Bench rest bullets are always hollow point (solid base). One end has to be open to insert the lead core and if you've ever swagged bullets you know the open end is the least accurate formed. The base is the most important for accuracy since a base not square will, as exiting the muzzle, have the gas pushing on one side more than the other and throwing off that shot. If the hollow point end, though concentric is not perfect it is less critical since it doesn't have much lead up there anyways.