Hole in breechface, Ortgies .32 auto

H

HisSoldier

New member
Hi,
I wanted to ask anyone else who has one of these old pistols if they know what the blind hole above the firing pin hole in the breech face is for? It looks to be about .100" diameter and does not communicate with any cross holes.

The location would be perfect for a loaded chamber indicator but it's blind, as I said.

Also I found a seemingly meaningless hole in the frame of an Astra 4000 Falcon but when it came time to install the hammer I figured out why it's there, it would be nearly impossible to press down the hammer against the mainspring to line up the pin holes that the hammer pivots on, I spend a lot of time trying.
Then I remembered that hole and sure enough it is perpendicular to the main spring, pressing the spring down and inserting a small pin into that hole allows one to install the hammer without cuss words!

Thanks ahead of time for anyone who knows the answer of what the mystery hole in the Ortgies breechface is for.
 
No one?
The Ortgies is an unusual handgun from prior to 1923, they look stylingwise to be much later than that, originating about 1919. Designed by Karl August Brauning, an interesting history unfolds as to why there are any of these pistols in the USA. Unblinking Eye says;

"Interestingly, the Hanover Courier newspaper reported that Deutsche Werke eventually dumped thousands of guns on the market below manufacturing cost: 48,000 guns were sold to an unnamed American company in 1922 for $0.66 each, and another 43,000 at a later date for $0.75 each. These sales may have been forced. " (No intention to bypass copyrights) https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Ortgies/ortgies.html

The only safety is the grip safety, and it's very strange. I may say more on this gun later, I just got mine back together, it came in a bag of ten old handguns needing repairs. Of the ten I have four back in shooting condition, for $500 they were a gift to an amateur gunsmith like me.
 
HisSoldier,
I don't possess an Ortgies pistol, but in checking various various handgun disassembly references, Each shows a picture if an Ortgies barrel removed during the disassembly process. Each barrel pictured shows a small metal flange protruding at the 12 o'clock position of the chamber face. Could the blind hole in the slide breech face be put there to accept this small flange? Just a thought.
Gary
 
Yes, that hole is to ensure that the projection on the barrel lines up with the slide. The projection can enter the hole and the slide close only if the barrel is in the proper position. Since not all barrels have the projection, but most slides seem to have the hole, the reason is not obvious in all cases.

Jim
 
Oh! You all are right. I didn't even look at the back of the barrel, it serves the same function as the hood of a 1911 I suppose. The barrel is tenoned to the frame so that it has to be twisted 90 degrees counter clockwise when looking straight down from the top, at which time it can then be pulled up off the frame, so I suppose that tit is an afterthought for alignment, but it makes little sense to me since if the slide goes back on the barrel has to be aligned first.

When I saw that hole I assumed it was for a missing LCI or something.

Another weirdness in the design is that the disconnector is activated from right to left instead of the normal practice if vertically.
And as Unblinking Eye mentioned the grip safety works in such a way as to be kind of meaningless. With the chamber loaded if the button at right rear is pushed up the grip safety snaps back, which does block the sear, but grasping the gun again makes it ready to fire automatically. It would not slow a child down who picked it up, as a separate safety would I mean.
I enjoy looking back through history at all the early designers concepts of what they thought a handgun should be, I get in trouble often because some of them don't have any info available on how to reassemble them.
Thanks guys.
 
It just occurred to me that the little projection might be there to help ejection, because as I said the barrel would already be aligned if the slide went on, sort of like a belt and suspenders if it's there for alignment.
 
You can install an Ortgies slide if the barrel is slightly out of line.
This causes the gun to shoot off target, and causes wear of the barrel hole in the slide.

The hole and projection insures the barrel is fully aligned or the projection won't go into the hole.
 
The "grip safety" is also sort or reversed. It does not restrict sear movement like the Colt grip safety does; instead, it actually cocks the firing pin; if it is not in the forward position, there is not enough tension on the firing pin spring for the gun to fire. That whole gun is a perfect example of backasswards thinking, and reminds me a bit of the Schwarzlose in that respect (though the Ortgies was a lot more common).

It is not commonly realized how much the auto pistols of that day were influenced negatively by Browning. Even when JMB did not actually use some design feature, chances were petty good that the shrewd old Mormon had patented it, thus making it unavailable to others without paying a royalty. Since Browning's patents covered the easiest and most logical way of doing something, other designers were forced to other, more complex and more expensive approaches if they wanted to compete against FN/Colt. (Take that Ortgies complex grip retention system. Why not a couple of simple screws? Because grip screws had been patented by guess who!)

Jim
 
To me James the grip attachment is elegant because it disposes the screws, if one assumes the screws are not attractive. And remember too, the Ortgies seems to have gone a long ways down the road of "screwless" assembly. The only real problem with his grip retention system is that it is so unknown, therefor people ignorantly break the grips trying to get them off.
That reminds me of the Tokarev grip retention system is likewise easy to misunderstand. I think my Savages have a weird screwless method too that has caused breaks even by people who did know how they worked. That one really does seem like it's designed to fail.

The Ortgies grips would last as long as the pistols if everyone knew how they are held in, but you're right, two small screws are cheaper than a flat spring pressing a machined channel shaped steel part forward while hidden from sight.
 
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