Hello!
I am a new participant on this forum, and yesterday I wrote a long article on my shooting impressions of several high quality pistols for rec.guns for fun.
Maybe some folks here would enjoy it!
As I was in the market for a larger caliber, high quality pistol I
spent a day at the range putting several hundred rounds through 3
USP's and a Sig Sauer P220 (.45cal).
Before I start... I came into this testing session pretty convinced
that I was going to get either a Sig in .40 or a USP in .40. Here are
my impressions:
*****HK USP45*****
This was the first pistol I shot along side the HK USP40 for a side by
side comparison of the two calibers in what is essentially the same
gun. I found the accuracy of the .45 to be quite good at the ranges I
fired which were 15ft, 25ft, and 50ft.
The weapon I was using was a range rental that the range opperator
said had about 15,000 rnds through it. It never misfired and seemed to
fit my hand pretty well, especially considering that I do not have
overly large hands and this is a pseudo doublestack .45cal.
I was expecting it to be a handful recoil wise but it was surprisingly
mild mannered. It pushed me good but never with that hard snap that
the 1911's seem to have. Apparently the "recoil reduction" system they
have with a double recoil spring works. Smooths out the felt recoil.
An armorer at a local gun store said it "lengthens the recoil pulse"
spreading the same force over about 30% more time, softening the blow.
Whatever... It seems to work.
I was able to line up the sights with both eyes open quite easily as
the two rear sight posts are far enough apart that the prominent front
sight was easily positioned with both eyes open. The gun felt solid,
the mechanical pieces were all still not sloppy and I felt that the
weapon was marginally more accurate than me at ranges out to 50ft.
The controls were pretty nice. I liked that the mechanical safety
doubled as a decocking lever. I was a little concerned that the manual
safety might be accidentally flicked on in a preasure situation
because it is on the frame, not high up on the slide.. but no matter
how I picked the gun up off the table I never mangagted to
accidentally set it. All in all, this seemd like a durable, well
constructed weapon that performed quite admirably; I liked it.
*****HK USP40*****
I fired this WITH the USP45; alternating magazines at side by side
targets. The first *very* surprising difference I noticed was that
this .40cal pistol had harsher recoil than the .45cal!! I was shocked.
I can only surmise that the few oz's less weight and the higher
velocity .40cal rounds combine to give this a sharper recoil. It did
not so much "push" my hand as it "twisted" fast in it.
Again, I am not a huge handed guy, and I am 5' 11", 170lbs... So
neither of these guns had "punishing" recoil by any means. But my wife
will shoot the .45cal better. Her hands are the exact same size as
mine (long fingers) and she has problems with high recoil, light
weight guns more than slower recoil ones.
The second thing that surprised me was that the .40 was NOTICEABLY
less accurate than the .45cal. I really thought I was doing something
wrong. So I put an extra magazine or two through it but at every range
and every type of fire that I did (slow fire, quick fire, double
action/single action groups, 25ft two eyes open, etc...) the .45cal
outshot the .40cal. Sometimes by a lot. At 25ft, slow fire, being as
accurate as I could be, I put all ten rounds of .45cal into a 2"
circle. The .40 was 5" with a flyer (my fault). MAybe this gun wasnt a
great specimen but others have told me that the .40cal is not as
accurate a cartrige as the .45..... Dont pretend to know, but this
specimen sure wasnt!
The controls are all similar and felt nice with one very important
difference. Twice I accidentally engaged the safety picking the gun up
off the table very quickly for a double action shot. Perhaps my grip
is at fault, but there is not a lot of leeway here for your thumb to
ride up without engaging that safety. Otherwise the gun felt nice, was
not loose and cycled completely reliably. A good gun, but it had me
rethinking my Caliber choice.
*****Sig P220 .45 cal*****
I own a sig. I own the little .380 auto (P230). I love the pistol. Its
in stainless and I know its essentially a nicely crafted walther clone
but damn its a nice gun! I really like it. So I came into firing the
full frame .45 Sig with a lot of anticipation. I had never fired them
before and I have several Police Officer clients who swear that they
are one of the best handguns made. It did not disappoint.
I chose the .45 to try after my experience with the USP's. At the same
time I fired the HK USP45compact. I'll tell you this much, the Sig is
a nice gun! My first magazine through it at 25ft firing at a medium
pace gave me a group of 1 3/4 inches! For me thats great! I was
stunned. I was not trying to get them all that tight. But round after
round kept going through the bulls eye!
The trigger.... oh the Sig trigger.... I know this gun has had many
rounds through it (range controller said about 20,000) but that double
action trigger was the smoothest and quickest I have ever felt. No big
"last bit" to get over. It just fired with the slightest hesitation to
let you know you were about to drop the hammer. Single action was
equally as snappy. I had a smile on my face!
But not about the controls. The slide release is hard to disengage and
if when I did it with my right hand thumb, the ridges on the slide
scraped my thumb as the slide went forward. I know the wife wont like
that. Plus it is doubtful she will even be able to disengage it. The
decocker was surprisingly light, considering that the decocker on our
P230 is hellishly stiff. It sure breaks down easy though.
Now one of my main gripes about the gun... It has only a 7 round
magazine. I know the M1911 has only seven rounds, but that remains one
of my principal compaints about it. The HK USP45 has a 12 round clip!
(not in my state tho.... 10rnd max). Heck, even the *compact* USP45
has eight rounds! Seems to me a nice pistol to shoot but becasue of
the dificulty in releasing the slide and the lower capacity magazine,
it just didnt seem like as nice a choice anymore.
Recoil was a little tougher than on the USP for all that the sig is a
slightly heavier gun (if I recall correctly). Again, the USP gets
points for their recoil reduction system. It actually seems to work as
billed. I was kinda disappointed that I found flaws with the Sig as I
was really leaning that way coming into this. Still... I would like to
own this gun!
*****HK USP45 compact*****
What a great concept! Make a compact .45 with more capacity than a
1911, able to carry cocked and locked, decocker lever, and rounded off
controls! but with small size comes compromises and I didnt
particularily care for the ones made here.
I have one heck of a blood blister from slamming part of my palm home
with a new clip. While the grip does allow for a tight three finger
hold (as opposed to 2 finger), the third finger is on the magazine
lip. and the meat of your palm (below your pinky finger) hangs below
the magazine well. If you are not careful, PINCH!
Recoil was noticeably sharper. More that tne full size .40, .45, or
sig. I got both a heavy push, and a twisting snap on each round.
Again, not "punishing" to an average size man, but it was a little
distracting and I doubt I would feel comfortable handing this pistol
off to my 5'5", 120lb wife.
Controls were USP tight, but that issue with the safety was even more
a concern. Althoguh I never accidentally engaged it (having learned on
the .40cal) I did have to positin my thumb lower than I am accostomed
to. Perhaps that contributed to my medicore shoting with the gun. Not
as bad as the full sized .40cal but no where near the USP45, much less
the Sig 220.
A cute gun, and a very well made .45 compact. I would much rather fire
this one than a lot of those "compact" .45's that look like .25 cals,
thats for sure. It also performed flawlessly like all these guns but
it was only marginally fun to shoot and after my hand started
throbbing from the blood blister I was glad the day was about over.
PRO's and CON's
*****HK USP45 (full sized)*****
PRO: Well made, solid weapon with good accuracy and great controls.
easy to fire with both eyes open, seems virtually indestructable with
large, easy to opperate parts. Recoil is surprisingly light, lighter
than the .40cal and the 10rnd magazine of .45cal is quite sweet!
CON: Its big, its bulky. No way can I conceal this baby. The trigger
guard is so large most holsters wont fit it.
*****HK USP40 (full sized)*****
PRO: Well made, durable .40cal that is a surprisingly light weight gun
for a full sized combat auto. It fires the .40cal which, IMHO, is a
very nice compromie round for a handgun. Controls are easy to opperate
but the 10 rnd magazine makes you wish you could get the 13 rounders
the Law Enforcement personnel can get.
CON: Sharp, harsh recoil as compared to USP45. Larger hands may find
avoiding the frame mounted safety to be too distracting. Crap accuracy
(although that may have just been this gun).
*****Sig P220 .45cal *****
PRO: amazing trigger, very accurate pistol. Finely machined, well
executed design. Its hard to imagine not using a gun like this for
most law enforcement tasks and home defense. It shoots so nice it
makes you want to practice! Easy to take apart.
CON: hard to opperate controls. Only a 7 round magazine. No manual
safety. It is finely machined and that makes me not really want to
take it camping. Only seven rounds. Most armorers have said "dont get
it too dirty!" Only seven rounds... (have I mentioned that already?)
*****HK USP45 compact *****
PRO: shares good controls with the USP. You can actually get 8 rounds
in a compact .45cal! Three finger grip, pretty easy to shoot with both
eyes open. Snag free versions of the full sized controls and a bobbed
for concealed carry.
CON: It bit me! Recoil is a bit sharp, accuracy is middle of the road,
I dont carry concealed so the tapered controls arent a plus for me,
the hammer is bobbed and so you cant cock it without pulling back on
the slide.
FINAL CONCLUSIONS
Well... after all was said and done I was convinced. I was about to go
back to the .45cal after 6 years of being a "Forty" man. I loved the
feel of the Sigs action, but my wife needs to be able to opperate the
controls. I put the USP 45 in her hand and she did a full functions
check without a sweat. In her words, "Thats not as bad as I thought!"
The .40cal USP disappointed me. The USP45 compact just didnt fit me
but I think it is a great gun for the right hand. The Sig was so fun
to shoot I want one, but it doesnt fit my current requirements for
home defense and remote camping well enough to buy.
What clinched it was that my gun range had a sale on their USP's
offering the four that they had new in the box to the public at their
law enforcement prices. There was a new .45 fullsized HK USP45 for
only $619. I bought it.
DISCLAIMER
I am no expert, just an ex-GI who likes to shoot pistols and believes
that excercising my second ammendment rights is an important component
of keeping them. I do not mean to rain on anyones pet gun here, just
giving strictly my impressions after spending an afternoon with four
of the best made pistols in the world.
I hope you guys get some use out of this article! Please give me
feedback on this good or bad. This is the second long winded post I
have ever written(the first
being on the S&W titanium .38special 5shot holdout revolver) and I
kinda like doing them if you guys like to read them.
Thanks!
J.T.
I am a new participant on this forum, and yesterday I wrote a long article on my shooting impressions of several high quality pistols for rec.guns for fun.
Maybe some folks here would enjoy it!
As I was in the market for a larger caliber, high quality pistol I
spent a day at the range putting several hundred rounds through 3
USP's and a Sig Sauer P220 (.45cal).
Before I start... I came into this testing session pretty convinced
that I was going to get either a Sig in .40 or a USP in .40. Here are
my impressions:
*****HK USP45*****
This was the first pistol I shot along side the HK USP40 for a side by
side comparison of the two calibers in what is essentially the same
gun. I found the accuracy of the .45 to be quite good at the ranges I
fired which were 15ft, 25ft, and 50ft.
The weapon I was using was a range rental that the range opperator
said had about 15,000 rnds through it. It never misfired and seemed to
fit my hand pretty well, especially considering that I do not have
overly large hands and this is a pseudo doublestack .45cal.
I was expecting it to be a handful recoil wise but it was surprisingly
mild mannered. It pushed me good but never with that hard snap that
the 1911's seem to have. Apparently the "recoil reduction" system they
have with a double recoil spring works. Smooths out the felt recoil.
An armorer at a local gun store said it "lengthens the recoil pulse"
spreading the same force over about 30% more time, softening the blow.
Whatever... It seems to work.
I was able to line up the sights with both eyes open quite easily as
the two rear sight posts are far enough apart that the prominent front
sight was easily positioned with both eyes open. The gun felt solid,
the mechanical pieces were all still not sloppy and I felt that the
weapon was marginally more accurate than me at ranges out to 50ft.
The controls were pretty nice. I liked that the mechanical safety
doubled as a decocking lever. I was a little concerned that the manual
safety might be accidentally flicked on in a preasure situation
because it is on the frame, not high up on the slide.. but no matter
how I picked the gun up off the table I never mangagted to
accidentally set it. All in all, this seemd like a durable, well
constructed weapon that performed quite admirably; I liked it.
*****HK USP40*****
I fired this WITH the USP45; alternating magazines at side by side
targets. The first *very* surprising difference I noticed was that
this .40cal pistol had harsher recoil than the .45cal!! I was shocked.
I can only surmise that the few oz's less weight and the higher
velocity .40cal rounds combine to give this a sharper recoil. It did
not so much "push" my hand as it "twisted" fast in it.
Again, I am not a huge handed guy, and I am 5' 11", 170lbs... So
neither of these guns had "punishing" recoil by any means. But my wife
will shoot the .45cal better. Her hands are the exact same size as
mine (long fingers) and she has problems with high recoil, light
weight guns more than slower recoil ones.
The second thing that surprised me was that the .40 was NOTICEABLY
less accurate than the .45cal. I really thought I was doing something
wrong. So I put an extra magazine or two through it but at every range
and every type of fire that I did (slow fire, quick fire, double
action/single action groups, 25ft two eyes open, etc...) the .45cal
outshot the .40cal. Sometimes by a lot. At 25ft, slow fire, being as
accurate as I could be, I put all ten rounds of .45cal into a 2"
circle. The .40 was 5" with a flyer (my fault). MAybe this gun wasnt a
great specimen but others have told me that the .40cal is not as
accurate a cartrige as the .45..... Dont pretend to know, but this
specimen sure wasnt!
The controls are all similar and felt nice with one very important
difference. Twice I accidentally engaged the safety picking the gun up
off the table very quickly for a double action shot. Perhaps my grip
is at fault, but there is not a lot of leeway here for your thumb to
ride up without engaging that safety. Otherwise the gun felt nice, was
not loose and cycled completely reliably. A good gun, but it had me
rethinking my Caliber choice.
*****Sig P220 .45 cal*****
I own a sig. I own the little .380 auto (P230). I love the pistol. Its
in stainless and I know its essentially a nicely crafted walther clone
but damn its a nice gun! I really like it. So I came into firing the
full frame .45 Sig with a lot of anticipation. I had never fired them
before and I have several Police Officer clients who swear that they
are one of the best handguns made. It did not disappoint.
I chose the .45 to try after my experience with the USP's. At the same
time I fired the HK USP45compact. I'll tell you this much, the Sig is
a nice gun! My first magazine through it at 25ft firing at a medium
pace gave me a group of 1 3/4 inches! For me thats great! I was
stunned. I was not trying to get them all that tight. But round after
round kept going through the bulls eye!
The trigger.... oh the Sig trigger.... I know this gun has had many
rounds through it (range controller said about 20,000) but that double
action trigger was the smoothest and quickest I have ever felt. No big
"last bit" to get over. It just fired with the slightest hesitation to
let you know you were about to drop the hammer. Single action was
equally as snappy. I had a smile on my face!
But not about the controls. The slide release is hard to disengage and
if when I did it with my right hand thumb, the ridges on the slide
scraped my thumb as the slide went forward. I know the wife wont like
that. Plus it is doubtful she will even be able to disengage it. The
decocker was surprisingly light, considering that the decocker on our
P230 is hellishly stiff. It sure breaks down easy though.
Now one of my main gripes about the gun... It has only a 7 round
magazine. I know the M1911 has only seven rounds, but that remains one
of my principal compaints about it. The HK USP45 has a 12 round clip!
(not in my state tho.... 10rnd max). Heck, even the *compact* USP45
has eight rounds! Seems to me a nice pistol to shoot but becasue of
the dificulty in releasing the slide and the lower capacity magazine,
it just didnt seem like as nice a choice anymore.
Recoil was a little tougher than on the USP for all that the sig is a
slightly heavier gun (if I recall correctly). Again, the USP gets
points for their recoil reduction system. It actually seems to work as
billed. I was kinda disappointed that I found flaws with the Sig as I
was really leaning that way coming into this. Still... I would like to
own this gun!
*****HK USP45 compact*****
What a great concept! Make a compact .45 with more capacity than a
1911, able to carry cocked and locked, decocker lever, and rounded off
controls! but with small size comes compromises and I didnt
particularily care for the ones made here.
I have one heck of a blood blister from slamming part of my palm home
with a new clip. While the grip does allow for a tight three finger
hold (as opposed to 2 finger), the third finger is on the magazine
lip. and the meat of your palm (below your pinky finger) hangs below
the magazine well. If you are not careful, PINCH!
Recoil was noticeably sharper. More that tne full size .40, .45, or
sig. I got both a heavy push, and a twisting snap on each round.
Again, not "punishing" to an average size man, but it was a little
distracting and I doubt I would feel comfortable handing this pistol
off to my 5'5", 120lb wife.
Controls were USP tight, but that issue with the safety was even more
a concern. Althoguh I never accidentally engaged it (having learned on
the .40cal) I did have to positin my thumb lower than I am accostomed
to. Perhaps that contributed to my medicore shoting with the gun. Not
as bad as the full sized .40cal but no where near the USP45, much less
the Sig 220.
A cute gun, and a very well made .45 compact. I would much rather fire
this one than a lot of those "compact" .45's that look like .25 cals,
thats for sure. It also performed flawlessly like all these guns but
it was only marginally fun to shoot and after my hand started
throbbing from the blood blister I was glad the day was about over.
PRO's and CON's
*****HK USP45 (full sized)*****
PRO: Well made, solid weapon with good accuracy and great controls.
easy to fire with both eyes open, seems virtually indestructable with
large, easy to opperate parts. Recoil is surprisingly light, lighter
than the .40cal and the 10rnd magazine of .45cal is quite sweet!
CON: Its big, its bulky. No way can I conceal this baby. The trigger
guard is so large most holsters wont fit it.
*****HK USP40 (full sized)*****
PRO: Well made, durable .40cal that is a surprisingly light weight gun
for a full sized combat auto. It fires the .40cal which, IMHO, is a
very nice compromie round for a handgun. Controls are easy to opperate
but the 10 rnd magazine makes you wish you could get the 13 rounders
the Law Enforcement personnel can get.
CON: Sharp, harsh recoil as compared to USP45. Larger hands may find
avoiding the frame mounted safety to be too distracting. Crap accuracy
(although that may have just been this gun).
*****Sig P220 .45cal *****
PRO: amazing trigger, very accurate pistol. Finely machined, well
executed design. Its hard to imagine not using a gun like this for
most law enforcement tasks and home defense. It shoots so nice it
makes you want to practice! Easy to take apart.
CON: hard to opperate controls. Only a 7 round magazine. No manual
safety. It is finely machined and that makes me not really want to
take it camping. Only seven rounds. Most armorers have said "dont get
it too dirty!" Only seven rounds... (have I mentioned that already?)
*****HK USP45 compact *****
PRO: shares good controls with the USP. You can actually get 8 rounds
in a compact .45cal! Three finger grip, pretty easy to shoot with both
eyes open. Snag free versions of the full sized controls and a bobbed
for concealed carry.
CON: It bit me! Recoil is a bit sharp, accuracy is middle of the road,
I dont carry concealed so the tapered controls arent a plus for me,
the hammer is bobbed and so you cant cock it without pulling back on
the slide.
FINAL CONCLUSIONS
Well... after all was said and done I was convinced. I was about to go
back to the .45cal after 6 years of being a "Forty" man. I loved the
feel of the Sigs action, but my wife needs to be able to opperate the
controls. I put the USP 45 in her hand and she did a full functions
check without a sweat. In her words, "Thats not as bad as I thought!"
The .40cal USP disappointed me. The USP45 compact just didnt fit me
but I think it is a great gun for the right hand. The Sig was so fun
to shoot I want one, but it doesnt fit my current requirements for
home defense and remote camping well enough to buy.
What clinched it was that my gun range had a sale on their USP's
offering the four that they had new in the box to the public at their
law enforcement prices. There was a new .45 fullsized HK USP45 for
only $619. I bought it.
DISCLAIMER
I am no expert, just an ex-GI who likes to shoot pistols and believes
that excercising my second ammendment rights is an important component
of keeping them. I do not mean to rain on anyones pet gun here, just
giving strictly my impressions after spending an afternoon with four
of the best made pistols in the world.
I hope you guys get some use out of this article! Please give me
feedback on this good or bad. This is the second long winded post I
have ever written(the first
being on the S&W titanium .38special 5shot holdout revolver) and I
kinda like doing them if you guys like to read them.
Thanks!
J.T.
H&K just