HK USPc 13 rounders for sale - ITS ILLEGAL DUMMY !!

There used to be a ATF "loophole" as far as magazines went, that has been since closed.
Here is how it used to work, but it is now ILLEGAL.
First you bought a pre '94 AK-47 hi capacity magazine for around $5 to $10 bucks at a gunshow.
You then found a source for "replacement magazine tubes", springs and followers.
You replaced the "defective" AK-47 magazine tube with the "replacement magazine tube", then put in new springs and followers. Then destroyed the "defective" magazine.
Here is where the "loophole" comes in, the "replacement tube" didn't have to be for the same weapon as the original "defective" magazine. Thus you could get a H&K USPc hi-cap replacement magazine tube, to "replace" the AK47 magazine.
And it was LEGAL.
:D
But the ATF has since ruled that the replacement magazine MUST function in the same weapon as the original magazine. So this doesn't work anymore.
:mad:
A man with a pile of "defective" AK-47 magazines, and a good source for "replacement magazine tubes" could pump out legal hi-capacity magazines for as little as $40 to $50 each, $10 for the AK mag, $20 for a replacement magazine tube, and another $15 to $20 for springs and followers.
This is how many pistols that were manufactured after the ban, have a pile of legal hi-capacity magazines for them.
People just learned to read the "fine print" in the legislation, to get around the ban, as cheaply as possible.
 
As far as I know,

No restrictive markings + No date code = OK to buy.

Now, I'm not sure whether these things were manufactured pre-ban, or this guy 'assembled' them from post-ban parts (which I don't think is possible).

IMHO, this guy would be stupid to post illegal mag ads on Gunbroker, as it would get him a nice visit from the ATF.

As always, Caveat Emptor.
 
Well "new" does not necessarily mean newly made; it may mean "unused". The law requires all hi-cap magazines made or imported after 1994 (whatever date it was) to be marked "LEO/Export only", and it is illegal for a non-LEO to possess those magazines. But if the magazines are not marked, they are legal for anyone to buy and possess. The presumption is, and there is no way to prove differently, that they were made prior to 1994. I see no problem in that sale.

Jim
 
The presumption is, and there is no way to prove differently, that they were made prior to 1994.
Click to expand...

I think Mike H's point is that these magazines didn't exist before 1994. That alone should be proof that they were made after the ban.

I would just get a USPc in .45ACP...Top it off at 8 rounds and call it a day.
 
I don't care if they are legal to buy. It's stupid to buy them. At CDNN new 10 rd mags cost $38.99. Why pay $51.01 more for 3 rds. You can get another 10 rd mag for less than $51.99.
 
Wasn't there another loophole?

They were importing pre-'94 hicaps from overseas and selling them as new here, for a lot cheaper than domestic preban mags. If I remember correctly, the ATF put the brakes on that, too.:(
 
gewehr, they still import preban highcaps. CDNN/ Tapco have had loads of AK high caps. There was a bill introduced about a year ago tried to ban the importation of high caps but it apparently went nowhere. :D
 
Even if a magazine is of post-crime bill manufacture, no LEO markings = plausible deniability. The magazine may be contraband and thus confiscated, but the ATF is going to have to show some criminal intent to successfully prosecute.

The provisions of the crime bill are generally unenforceable, IMHO, because in many cases the legality of the act depends on when it took place. This must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt for successful prosecution.
 
Why pay $51.01 more for 3 rds. You can get another 10 rd mag for less than $51.99.
Click to expand...
You made a quantum leap from the legality to the wisdom of buying the mags. A totally different topic... :)
 
"Why pay $51.01 more for 3 rds. You can get another 10 rd mag for less than $51.99."


Why? WHY?

Why, it's 3 more rounds! THREE ROUNDS!

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

BLARGH ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

THREE ROUNDS! THREE ROUNDS!!!


Or, at least that's the kind of response I see at times to this sort of thing.... :)

Me? I carry a revolver. :D
 
As I understand it any high cap mag made after the ban is marked LEO or something along those lines.If the mag is unmarked it must be pre ban.Didn't Walther/S&W do some high cap building before the 99 was sold so as to beat the ban?Never heard of that loophole before.
 
If no gun which can use those mags was ever MADE before 1997, the mags would presumably be post ban and illegal. But the key word is "made". I don't know about that specific gun, but many foreign guns are made and sold in other countries years before they are imported here. Magazines made for those guns before 1994 would be perfectly legal to import, since the law is based on the date made, not the date imported. (Sen. Feinstein has tried to change that several times, but failed. She claims she "intended" to ban import, but that is not the way the law is written and we do not yet, thank Heaven, enforce a senator's "intent".)

Jim
 
Magazines made for those guns before 1994 would be perfectly legal to import, since the law is based on the date made, not the date imported.
Click to expand...
post '94 magazines are illegal to import, post '94 replacement parts are not illegal to import. It is illegal to assemble post '94 parts into magazines, unless you destroy a pre-ban of the same exact type.
Like I said, you used to be able to take a pre-ban magazine, and replace it with anything you wanted, as long as you destroyed the original magazine, and as long as the replacement tubes were not marked restricted. Many manufacturers were slow about marking their magazines, so there are many many legal magazines available for post '94 manufactured pistols.
A lot of people made a lot of money exploiting this loophole until the ATF released their official ruling that the replacement magazine must be a "replacement in kind".
Amazing how many replacement AK-47 magazines worked perfectly well in a Walther P99, or a H&K USPc.
:D
NOTE that this is now ILLEGAL, do NOT do this anymore.
 
"As far as I know,

No restrictive markings + No date code = OK to buy."

Ding!Ding!Ding!
We have a winner!

They were manufactured after the ban, because they were not in existance before the ban. The fact that they were manufacured after the ban and probably imported illegally is beside the point.

The law states that if they are not marked to indicate a restricted or post-ban status, that they are assumed to be pre-ban. It may be a moral issue, but it is perfectly legal to buy them.
 
I would make it a point to NEVER buying a pistol designed for over 10 rounds but could not load more than 10 because of this stupid, stupid, law. Just a general principle of mine.

justinr1
 
I still don't understand how "Glockmeister" & other businesses are still selling new "pre ban" 17 round & 15 round mags for Glocks for $100 - $135.00 & they will ship anywhere, including CA.
 
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