$hit hits the fan. How far will you go?

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riddleofsteel

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a recent thread here (about Ireland and the IRA) caused a lot of high sounding moral posistioning by TFL'ers. my question is this.

If things went bad in this country and personal freedoms were in the crapper. If weapons were made illegal and the federal government suspended the bill of rights. If federal forces and police were enforcing the will of the government. How far would you go? Are there any limits to what you would do if you truly thought you were fighting for a just cause? i.e. The restoration of a free America. Or would you trade security and a soft life within the system for your freedoms?

I know this sounds silly but it is not much of a streach considering recent events. This is an exercise in testing the limits of our actions as opposed to what we hold dear, NOT a recipes for insurection or a chance to vent hate for the system. I love our country and it is the best system left on this world.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
The honorable Shin-Tao speaks with wisdom.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Weapons are ALREADY illegal, where's your home-made full-auto conversion?

You have the privelege of owning certain weapons made to their specification (no larger than, smaller than, etc. etc.).

Everyone has already traded security for a soft life within the system. Today's "I don't need fullauto" will be tomorrow's "I don't need semiauto or centerfire".

Licencing will put an end to all this rebellious talk, too.

Battler.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shin-Tao:
It wouldn't be wise for anyone to divulge there intentions on the world wide web.[/quote]

Well, Jarheads are not know for their wisdom.

I swore, and signed, an Oath 20+ years ago to "Defend the Constitution against all enimies, foreign and domestic.." I will live up to that Oath till I my final breath passes from my being.


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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
I choose to keep my own counsel.

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When they try to take away my 2nd Amendment rights, tell them Hell's comin' and I'm comin' with it! Armed and Dangerous
 
In 1966 I took the same oath to which Gunny refers. I have not, nor I suspect has he, been relieved of responsibility to that oath. "... all enemies, foreign and domestic."

However, it will all come down to two things, in my estimation. <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>When the "fit hits the shan", you may not have the liberty of pondering long on what to do. You better have already have made your plan and be committed to it. Whichever side you come down on, there won't be any middle of the road.<LI>Which side you decide to support will be based on your "interpretation" of what's going on.</UL> Is it really time to stand up and feed the Tree of Liberty the blood it calls for periodically? Is the Constitution really under attack? Has the government really gone too far this time? You better be right and you better be sure. There's no going back.

The incrementalism and revisionism are the problems. Just a little nick at the First Amendmnent here, a discussion about what the Second really means and while we're at it, a little whittle out of it, too, a little bruise on the 10th and 14th there ...

Are you going to know when it's time to stand? I say it'll be damned difficult to know. The Constitution will probably not be suspended in its entirety, ever. That would be the clarion call and everything would catch on fire at once. No, it'll be a breakdown of the FBI computer system that conducts the NICS background checks for firearms sales. Just for a day or two, no real inconvenience for a reasonable person. That will be accompanied by an Executive Branch that supplants the legislative process with extravagant use of the Executive Order. That will be supported by a Judicial Branch that begins to legislate from the bench. And of course this will all be done with a Legislative Branch in the background that is hesitant to exercise their authority and is more interested in getting re-elected than doing the right thing.

When the sh!t hits the fan? The government is too smart to let that happen. How about one little dropping at a time? Take a whiff.



[This message has been edited by sensop (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
Don't ask, don't tell about covers it.


[This message has been edited by RAE (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
I took the oath. I still honor the oath. But talking about certain things on a forum where No Such Agency and other heroes spend their time monitoring is...well...what do you think?
 
"If things went bad in this country and personal freedoms were in the crapper"

Relatively speaking, they are in the crapper now. In my 52 years I have noticed significant changes/losses. My parents in their 78 years can point to even greater losses in freedom.

I know several policemen and sheriffs deputies, I go shooting with some of them. They feel the same way we do about the loss of freedom issue. If we start pulling the trigger over our loss of freedoms these will be the first people we will have to pull the trigger on. They are people just like us, most of them think just like us, most of them are in the same political camp as us. They are "us".

We have to make sure that it never happens. It would be a lose, lose situation. We would split our own ranks and set the world against us, just like the OKC bombing did.

We need a better way.
 
How far would I go? Well let's just say that my guns, especially the ones that have been handed down through generations, will be in my posession 'til after I'm dead.

I can't help but wonder what my forefathers would've done, and what they would expect me to do. Whatever it may be, when the time comes to meet them, I want to go knowing I made them proud of me.

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"Rise like lions after slumber in invanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - They are few."
-Percy Bysshe Shelly (1792-1822)
 
lets narrow the field a bit:

hypothetically

is the "miitary" the only legal target..
the "police"...
government intrastructure...
or would any action be justified?

no elaboration needed just is it or not
my point was many of the responses to the IRA string damned the IRA for using tactics labeled as "terroristic". my question is how do you fight a modern war of urban resistance without terrorism.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.

[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited May 14, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
If I read riddle's intent/question. He might have been alluding to the idea that if(big word for just 2 letters, huh?) Martial Law, or a suspension of certain articles, not the whole enchilada, then what?

You could still have an operative Constitution, and a certain portion of the BOR, and still be in a normal, or non-Martial Law condition.

At what point is enough enough? When the roving SS troops come after the registered item(s), and the owners of the same? Perhapos after the President(whoever that might be) decides that (s)he can negate the normal election process because we're in a "National Emergency", and hold position for "as long as it takes".

Even if you did, as an individual, decide you've had enough. And that it was over as far as Freedom was concerned, what are you going to do? Take to the high ground? I would think you'd have to go through multiple road blocks if you were in a car. And hoofing it would be OK. But to where? Had you already made provisions before this all occured in the event it DID occur? a.k.a. Disaster Preparedness.

Point about terrorists, by definition.
Arafat was, for decades, labeled a terrorist.
Yet has been awarded the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize. And is still the enemy of Isreal.
The word terrorist is being used in the same breath now as the RKBA. Since someone has decreed that firearms is a crisis. Now the word association tactic has been applied to RIGHTS. We're potential terrorists by even discussing How far will you go.


Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited May 14, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
Donny: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You could still have an operative Constitution, and a certain portion of the BOR, and still be in a normal, or non-Martial Law condition.[/quote]My point exactly. That wouldn't be a "sh!t hit the fan" scenario. It will be much more difficult to discern that it's "show time."

riddleofsteel: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>is the "miitary" the only legal target..
the "police"...
government intrastructure...[/quote]Well, I just don't think we'll be able to make those distinctions. I don't know how I would know who to trust and who not to threaten. I'm sure it won't be the "military" or the "police" across the board. As institutions maybe, but not everyone who is affiliated.

Hopefully, it will never happen. I believe that the way the national government behaves today, eventually those we think of as the "opposition" (i.e., liberal socialists) will see the light because they are Americans first and they will lose as much as we. That is my hope.
 
i agree. i have asked for this topic to be removed from this board. thanks for all your replies. remember the tale of the frog in the hot water.
THROW A FROG IN BOILING WATER AND HE WILL KICK ASS TO GET OUT.
PUT HIM IN LUKE WARM WATER AND SLOWLY BRING UP THE HEAT AND HE WILL LET YOU BOIL HIM TO DEATH.
 
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