Historical question about the .50-70 Gov.

K

Kappe

New member
Ok, most folks reading this probably know the .44 Russian was the first internally-lubricated cartridge design, and the story behind it too.

Out of boredom, I opened up a notepad document and started jotting down all the rimfire and centerfire cartridges I could think of that came along before the .44 Russian in ~1870.
.22 Rimfire, .32 Rimfire, .44 Henry, .56-56 Spencer, .50-70 Gov, .46 Rimfire, .44 American, etc...

Wait, .50-70 Government. Designed in 1866. Wasn't that internally-lubricated too? :confused:

Looking at pictures of original .50-70 rounds, none of them seem to have heeled bullets. Am I missing something here, or was the .50-70, in all its stop-gappy glory, really the first modern, internally-lubricated cartridge, NOT the .44 Russian?
 
5070FA2.jpg


Here's one of the pictures I was looking at earlier of several .50-70 rounds. They look like they're rimfire, but they're actually centerfire Martin bar and Benet-primed.

The source (http://www.oldammo.com/november06.htm) claims the first two are from 1867-1868, which predates the .44 Russian. None of them have exposed lube grooves.
 
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A number of internally lubricated cartridges preceded the .44 S&W Russian, including the .58 Miller and the .58 Allin, and possibly the .58 Josslyn Carbine (but I'm not sure about that one).

But they were all military developments

The .44 Russian was the first COMMERCIALLY available internally lubricated cartridge.


They certainly were NOT externally lubricated, the primary reason being that anyone who shoots blackpowder rifle knows that to keep the black powder fouling soft you need a LOT of soft lubricant. Where would that be on those nice, smooth .50-70 bullets?

You pull one of those early cartridges apart, and you're going to find a bullet with 3 nice, wide, deep grease grooves.
 
What a lot of people also don't know is that some of the early internally lubricated bullets...

were externally lubricated because, while they had non-heeled bullet, they had grease grooves ABOVE the case mouth.

Two examples are shown in this picture (the two on the left):

https://www.google.com/search?q=ext...Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D57%26t%3D152854;1064;645


These are all .44 Russian cartridges, but the two on the left have external grease grooves in the non-heeled bullet. Interestingly, those two are apparently Russian made, but there were also American-made cartridges of the same type.

As a side note, the third bullet from the right is a very interest one... It's a late 1800s "pump lubricated" bullet.

The lube was in a hollow in the base of the bullet, with a plug covering it. On firing, the plug pushed the lube out through several small holes, one of which you can see in the side of the bullet.

Not very successful, difficult to manufacture, and didn't last very long.
 
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Paper patching of lead bullets was certainly used in the united states, but primarily commercially. And, frequently, the bullets had to be dip lubed to deal with the powder fouling, which is my guess as to why the paper patch never caught on with the military.
 
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