HIGH POWER BOLT ACTION TACK DRIVER-WHATS BEST VALUE?
- Thread starter HARDBALL
- Start date
the remington 700 pss or the vss have heavy bull barrels and with a little correction to the bedding and a trigger job generally will shoot under moa standards.remingtons new lite tactcle really impresses me the most.these guns can be bought for 750 to 800.at worst case you might not get a factory tube that will shoot all that great and you will have a great stock and a great action that you can have a gunsmith put a custom barrel with match chamber that will shoot 1/2 moa.
Solitar:
You are talking about shooting into LESS than 1 minute of angle.
The 10 ring on the 600 yard decimal target is 12" diameter(2 minutes).
With all one hears these days about "sniper rifles" and so forth and so on, a 2 minute rifle might not seem all that great, but consider this. ANY rifle/ammunition combo that will hold the good side of 2 minutes or even 2 minutes can, in theory, shoot a POSSIBLE SCORE AT 600 YARDS. Lots of rifle/ammunition combos will shoot tiny groups at 100 yards, off the bench or over a rest. Shooting at the range you mentioned, 500 yards is another thing entirely. For instance, while the rifle/ammuniution might be capable of such grouping, how about the shooter.
Back when I could hold a sight picture at 600 yards with iron sights, I used to shoot at least 190 x 200, with Model 70's, both 30-06 and 308, using bullets ranging from 168 to 190 grain. On a "good day", I could hold 10 ring elevation, lost points going to windage errors. Did close to that with an M-1 also and I never got beyond the Expert class (civilian).
Out to 600 yards a good 308, with appropriate ammunition would lilely outshoot, by a little, the equivalent 30-06. Beyond 600 yards, the 30-06 is what I would prefer. To each their own.
Am not familiar with the Remington's mentioned, and no longer shoot rifle anyhow, however for "across the course" use, the Model 70 just seemed to work better than most bolt guns, and I had a 40X too.
[This message has been edited by alan (edited May 30, 2000).]
You are talking about shooting into LESS than 1 minute of angle.
The 10 ring on the 600 yard decimal target is 12" diameter(2 minutes).
With all one hears these days about "sniper rifles" and so forth and so on, a 2 minute rifle might not seem all that great, but consider this. ANY rifle/ammunition combo that will hold the good side of 2 minutes or even 2 minutes can, in theory, shoot a POSSIBLE SCORE AT 600 YARDS. Lots of rifle/ammunition combos will shoot tiny groups at 100 yards, off the bench or over a rest. Shooting at the range you mentioned, 500 yards is another thing entirely. For instance, while the rifle/ammuniution might be capable of such grouping, how about the shooter.
Back when I could hold a sight picture at 600 yards with iron sights, I used to shoot at least 190 x 200, with Model 70's, both 30-06 and 308, using bullets ranging from 168 to 190 grain. On a "good day", I could hold 10 ring elevation, lost points going to windage errors. Did close to that with an M-1 also and I never got beyond the Expert class (civilian).
Out to 600 yards a good 308, with appropriate ammunition would lilely outshoot, by a little, the equivalent 30-06. Beyond 600 yards, the 30-06 is what I would prefer. To each their own.
Am not familiar with the Remington's mentioned, and no longer shoot rifle anyhow, however for "across the course" use, the Model 70 just seemed to work better than most bolt guns, and I had a 40X too.
[This message has been edited by alan (edited May 30, 2000).]
K
KilgorII
Guest
I shot my father's new Browning A-bolt Varminter in .223 remington this weekend. It started with three inch three shot groups using 55 grain handloads. After 30 minutes spent calibrating the BOSS I shot a three shot group slightly smaller than a half inch at 100 yards. He got a good deal on the rifle new for $600 out the door. This is a beautiful rifle, the fit and finish on it is perfect. Some of the old timers (sorry Walter) may say the BOSS is a pain in the butt. But it just plain works. Once you have spent some time at the range determining the sweet spot on the BOSS for different loads you can turn the BOSS to these spots in a matter of seconds. This rifle is a heavy barreled rifle bedded in a laminated stock with a free floated barrel.
If beautiful rifle that shoots sub 0.5 MOA is what you want, then you should check this rifle out. http://www.browning.com (The picture doesn't do it justice, find one at a shop)
P.S. I have one coming in .308 winchester. After a range session I'll keep ya'll posted.
If beautiful rifle that shoots sub 0.5 MOA is what you want, then you should check this rifle out. http://www.browning.com (The picture doesn't do it justice, find one at a shop)
P.S. I have one coming in .308 winchester. After a range session I'll keep ya'll posted.
HARDBALL:
IMHO THE value in rifles today is H-S Precision. They are a semi-custom factory that produces great rifles. They come with all the normally required after-purchase work( trigger, bedding, re-crown, etc.) already done. They guarentee their rifles .30 cal and under to shoot .5 minute with good ammo. Mine shoots .25 minute all day long![b/]
The last time I talked to them, the standard rifle is $1645. Take a Remington 700 PSS and add the above work and you are almost there.
www.hsprecision.com
------------------
"Carry" on
Rick
I prefer armed combat to unarmed combat. It's easier on the knuckles.
[This message has been edited by Speedy (edited May 30, 2000).]
IMHO THE value in rifles today is H-S Precision. They are a semi-custom factory that produces great rifles. They come with all the normally required after-purchase work( trigger, bedding, re-crown, etc.) already done. They guarentee their rifles .30 cal and under to shoot .5 minute with good ammo. Mine shoots .25 minute all day long![b/]
The last time I talked to them, the standard rifle is $1645. Take a Remington 700 PSS and add the above work and you are almost there.
www.hsprecision.com
------------------
"Carry" on
Rick
I prefer armed combat to unarmed combat. It's easier on the knuckles.
[This message has been edited by Speedy (edited May 30, 2000).]
Robert the41MagFan
New member
I will second the Browning A-bolt with the Boss. For under $750 (new), you get a rifle that can shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards. It is a beautiful firearm with excellent craftsmanship. Here is a typical 3 shot group.
Robert
Robert
there is nothing typical about that group.it is outstanding.!!!!!however i belive that it is the exception rather than the rule.browning rifles because of there lack of bedding areas on the receivers generally dont shoot this well and have a tendency to lose point of impact more from season to season than any other action on the market."more contact means left shifting."Also because of the complicated locking system of the browning they tend to not hold accuracy over the long hall if the gun is used on a regular bases.i have seen and fixed several that got out of spec within 1200 rounds.now i will agree that this is more than the average joe will ever shoot his rifle but for a serious rifle work, requires a serious action.remington actions with there 2 locking lugs and their totally incompassed bolt head are the strongest most accurate rifles on the market.i prefer the controlled round feed guns like the winchester and brno actions for dangerous game but for general hunting and serious target work ill start with the remington action everytime.yes i have had hs guns before and they shoot very well.i felt that the inquier of this article might have been looking for somthing a little less than a cadilac though.
I've had great service out of a Rem. 700 VSF in .308 that I had a little work done on. The whole package including scope (Leupold 6.5x20) was under $2000. The only b**** I had was when I carried the 11-1/2 lb bugger 8 miles through the woods. Since then I have added a sheepskin pad to the sling (dyed black, of course).
IMHO in order to get the kind of accy. you want you're going to have to :
1.)Spend some bucks on a quality rig and then spend some more getting it to fit you.
2.)Break it in right and care for it like your first born child in a solid gold diaper.
3.)Handload to tune a cartridge to fit the rifle.
4.)Get lucky - Even the greatest rifle maker flubs it sometimes.
Good Luck and best wishes.
IMHO in order to get the kind of accy. you want you're going to have to :
1.)Spend some bucks on a quality rig and then spend some more getting it to fit you.
2.)Break it in right and care for it like your first born child in a solid gold diaper.
3.)Handload to tune a cartridge to fit the rifle.
4.)Get lucky - Even the greatest rifle maker flubs it sometimes.
Good Luck and best wishes.
one clarifacation on the brownings i must make.
browning use to make all of its non dangerous cartridges on sako actions.most all of these guns would shoot as good as the shooter could reasonably shoot and sako actions have always held up reasonably well.the gun i was refering to was the abolt line of guns.sorry for any confusion on this matter.
browning use to make all of its non dangerous cartridges on sako actions.most all of these guns would shoot as good as the shooter could reasonably shoot and sako actions have always held up reasonably well.the gun i was refering to was the abolt line of guns.sorry for any confusion on this matter.
Had to rewrite the post after I went back and saw out of the box. Honestly with rifles today, it's hard to get a bad shooter in the heavy barrel line up. Even the ugly old 110 fv savage in .308 will hold .47-.61" center to center 5 shots for around $350. A fellow at the range had a $100 NEF that would go .77", not bad at all for a single with a terrible stress point on the barrel.
I would also like to say the browning with boss and a heavy barrel is a fine shooter, however all my longrange rifles are synthetic stocked, so I've never witnessed the zero shifting problem. In short what I'm trying to say is, as long as you stay with a reputable name odds are you are going to be closer to .5" than 1" with tailored rounds and control on your part.
I would also like to say that my biggest disapointment this year was from a Sako trg-s in 7.82 warbird. It grouped in at .98". My Lazzeroni L2000ST in the same caliber puts 5 into .34-.41" depending apon my part. Steyr, Winchester, Remington, Savage, Browning and usually Sako are good starting points, just let your wallet do the process of elimination, then choose the remaining candidates.
I would also like to say the browning with boss and a heavy barrel is a fine shooter, however all my longrange rifles are synthetic stocked, so I've never witnessed the zero shifting problem. In short what I'm trying to say is, as long as you stay with a reputable name odds are you are going to be closer to .5" than 1" with tailored rounds and control on your part.
I would also like to say that my biggest disapointment this year was from a Sako trg-s in 7.82 warbird. It grouped in at .98". My Lazzeroni L2000ST in the same caliber puts 5 into .34-.41" depending apon my part. Steyr, Winchester, Remington, Savage, Browning and usually Sako are good starting points, just let your wallet do the process of elimination, then choose the remaining candidates.
Robert the41MagFan
New member
Broke in a friends rifle over the weekend. It was a entry level 223 Savage Tactical ($399). After we broke the rifle in, I took this three shot group at 100 yards. This rifle has a inexpensive plastic stock and more trigger creep than a 80 year old rusted door hinge. I about peed in my pants. Would have to agree, most rifles today are MOA or better and most are in the better category.
Robert
[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited June 01, 2000).]
Robert
[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited June 01, 2000).]
Robert the41MagFan
New member
Futo,
I have the A-Bolt with Boss & brake, just like the one pictured. Double ear protection is a must. It's loud, but recoil is minimum. For a 308 anyway.
Fully understand what the gentleman from Gunmart is saying. These laminated stocks have no real pillar bedding. A glass bedding or a after market stock with a aluminum bedding would take care of most long term accuracy problems. Although, have to say this. These laminated stocks are made more of resin than wood, so they are not prone to the same problems as a traditional wood stock.
As for the action, I don't really know. Have not had this rifle long enough to have any problem and don't shoot it often enough that I think it is going to have a problem for a while. I certainly appreciate the information though and will keep an eye on the action. But for right now, it shoots awesome. And, for the $400 I paid (it was a dealer sample), it is a winner all the way.
Robert
[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited June 02, 2000).]
I have the A-Bolt with Boss & brake, just like the one pictured. Double ear protection is a must. It's loud, but recoil is minimum. For a 308 anyway.
Fully understand what the gentleman from Gunmart is saying. These laminated stocks have no real pillar bedding. A glass bedding or a after market stock with a aluminum bedding would take care of most long term accuracy problems. Although, have to say this. These laminated stocks are made more of resin than wood, so they are not prone to the same problems as a traditional wood stock.
As for the action, I don't really know. Have not had this rifle long enough to have any problem and don't shoot it often enough that I think it is going to have a problem for a while. I certainly appreciate the information though and will keep an eye on the action. But for right now, it shoots awesome. And, for the $400 I paid (it was a dealer sample), it is a winner all the way.
Robert
[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited June 02, 2000).]