HIGH CALIBER DOUBLE ACTION DERRINGERS (only!)

B

Biff Tannen

New member
Without this becoming a debate of derringers vs pistols and larger capacity revolvers for CC, I'd like to get as much advice as possible on the least explored type of firearm on any forum… the HIGH CALIBER DOUBLE ACTION DERRINGER.

Yes, for some there are more useful options. Yet, many of us require the MOST CONCEALABLE handgun with the optimal ability to protect ourselves against a BG. For the needs of a special demographic, a HIGH CALIBER DOUBLE ACTION DERRINGER is the most appropriate solution for CC.

BUT after countless hours of research, I have come to find that there is so much misleading (and downright WRONG) information regarding DOUBLE ACTION DERRINGERS, and I feel this needs to be corrected if our community is to be well informed.

So again, without this becoming a debate on high caliber double action derringers vs anything else, what I am looking for is any educated advice on HIGH CALIBER DOUBLE ACTION DERRINGERS (9mm, 38, 38 special, 40 S&W, 357 mag, 45, etc.):

1. Testimonials, preferences, and success stories with regard to caliber, model, etc.

2. Any reported problems / malfunctions with regard to caliber, model, etc.

3. Suggested ammo with regard to caliber, model, etc.

4. Compare / contrast the available models and options on the market with regard to reliability, size, weight, and personal experience.

5. Photos that reference size of high caliber double action derringers with normal pocket items such as a comb, pencil, dollar bill, etc

6. Holsters and CC systems with regard to caliber, model, etc.

7. Any video links which demonstrate any high caliber double action derringers would be much appreciated

I would appreciate very much any information and insight. I feel this is a much overlooked topic which is relevant to the lifestyles and CC needs of many members of our community, Thanks so much, your input may be the factor that ultimately saves the lives of good law-abiding people.

Hopefully, this forum will soon be the definitive source on the high caliber double action derringer.
 
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Uh, I can't think of any DA derringers off the top of my head other than the High Standard and its current spinoffs from American Derringer and BJT, and the High Standard ones are all rimfire while the centerfire ones from AD/BJT are slightly less common than hen's teeth. Is there one I'm missing?

That could have something to do with why nobody talks about them on gun forums; it's like being a member of the Trabant Owner's Club of America...
 
Yes, Sirs, I am familiar with the DA 38 from American Derringer... It seems identical to the Hi Standard Derringer and BJT Derringer... And as far as I can tell the parts and manufacture rights just went from one company to another ending in the DA 38, its most modern version...
Could this be the ONLY double action derringer known to man?
If so, are there any articles, videos, reviews, or even an owners manual download I'm missing? I've been searching and have found these videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S29wNv0dOyM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE6BNZaRdEY

I've found nothing detailing the reliability... No formal reviews, no advocates, no haters... The gun is met with complete indifference.

Now, I've had a look at the COP 357, but I can't find anyone who can attest for its reliability. From almost every review, it's specifically a novelty gun for collectors attracted to its "coolness", and at 22 ounces a bit too heavy for practical concealed carry situations.

So it the DA 38 the end of the line here???

THANKS MUCH!
 
Biff Tannen said:
Now, I've had a look at the COP 357, but I can't find anyone who can attest for its reliability.
Click to expand...

Every one I've ever handled and fired has been a steaming pile of fail.
 
American Derringer DA 38 TESTIMONIALS and OPINIONS

Okay, then, unless anyone pulls in any last-minute info, looks like the American Derringer DA 38 might be our only modern solution for the HIGH CALIBER DOUBLE ACTION DERRINGER category, since it seems to be the only model still in manufacture...
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/American_Derringer_DA38.htm

DA 38 STATS:
Caliber:.38 Special, 9mm, .357 Magnum (Can fire .38 as well.), and .40 S&W
Barrel Length: 3.3 inches (8.4 cm)
Overall Length: 4.84 inches (12.3 cm)
Width: 1.1 inches (2.8 cm)
Height: 3.3 inches (8.4 cm)

AND SO, let the DA 38 "VS" arguments commence...

What do you feel is the best caliber and ammo for DA 38 CC, taking into account with only two shots, if assaulted (AT "UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL" RANGE), an average man will need to stop one or two BGs with optimal efficiency?

With the caliber options offered for the DA 38, it seems the common man is best off to stick to ordering the .38 / 357 magnum combo, practicing with .38 and possibly working his way to 357, if his hand can take it...

Or does anyone have any DA 38 experience with a specific ammo or ballistics tests with this barrel length, that suggest the .40 S&W would be better as a man-stopper for "up close and personal" defense?

OR does anyone out there have experience with the DA 38 that suggests the gun is just plain old unreliable?

THANKS!
 
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Think large?

Biff, no, never even seen one in the flesh. Only pictures and stories.

Back to the original post, however.

I imagine the best deringer style gun (one or two-shot pocket gun) would be large bore and short cartridge (to maximize the barrel length in the package). .45 GAP comes to mind. You will get maximum velocity for minimum size.

The firing mechanism of most guns takes up more space than I would think optimal, too. Shorten the overall length of the gun by reshaping the striker or hammer to put most of the mass below, not behind, the breech. Thereby maximizing the barrel length/overall length ratio for maximizing ballistic performance.

The grip should be large enough to get at least three fingers and a thumb on it. Recoil is bound to be fierce.

Going slightly off-topic for a moment, when I think of a two-shot last-ditch defense gun, I think of an 8" overall length double barrel over-under break action pistol chambered in 500 S&W or similar cartridge (460 S&W, 454 Casull, 45 Colt, 44 Mag, 41 Mag.) Such a gun should be able to be made to weigh less than 36 oz without using exotic materials.

It should be adequate against Alaskan Browns and Grizzlies.

Just an update of the 19th Century "Howdah" pistols.

No one makes one that I know of, either.
 
Concealability

LOST SHEEP: Great insight you offered, it makes me want to clarify one main need: Concealability... I (and my demographic of firearms owners) need to go as concealable as possible, and are willing to trade off the extra shots for the small size of the derringer. Concealability is a major concern, as I DO NOT want anyone to know I am carrying, as many of my business associates share the belief that our rights to own a firearm should be taken away from us (which is sad but nevertheless a reality I have to consider in my field of work… if any of my anti-firearm business associates spots my gun it could cost me a business deal). It's a rotten prospect, as if any of these gun-haters was assaulted by a violent BG, I'd have to bare the brunt of protecting them with mine...
With this said, here's a good side-story- I have read in a forum that one DA 38 owner actually had his barrel SAWED OFF so he could conceal it in a tobacco can (sounds like a fun guy to invite to a backwoods BBQ / range party haha!)
Thanks!
 
I have never seen but a very few of those centerfire double action derringers. Those few were all at gun shows. I presume by people who realized they had been depending on self defense with two shots.

I know that is how I felt when I traded off my High Standard .22 Magnum derringer. It was light, flat, reliable, and surprisingly accurate in the Smoke 'em Joe technique (Forefinger down the side of the barrels, pulling the DA with the middle finger.) But it only held two shots.

I now carry at minimum a 6 shot .32 ACP or a 5 shot .38 Special for no more weight and only a little more bulk in the .38's cylinder.


Once upon a time, I got to shoot a COP 4-barrel.
Recoil with .38 wadcutters was noticeable, .38 service load was heavy, and .357 magnum was painful. I think everything but the wadcutter keyholed.
At least it went off every time, which is more than some I have read about would do.
 
I would advise carrying 148 gr. wadcutters in the gun. That said, the D/A .38 is larger and heavier than quite a few pistols that are much more appropriate for your situation.
 
Bill DeShivs,
You recommended 148 gr. wadcutters for the DA 38... Is this a consideration for accuracy purposes?
Second question: for "up close and personal" self defense, is there a better man-stopping option I might use where this DA 38 might have to be used at less than say... ten feet?
Thanks for the advice!
 
.38s won't mushroom from short barrels. The wadcutter cuts a nice, clean hole, and has mild recoil.
I hate it when people hijack a thread, suggesting what they like. But-this time I can't help it. The derringer(s) you speak of are large, difficult to shoot well, heavy, and expensive. They are 2 shot (at best) weapons.
Perhaps you are unaware of the many newer options available that:
are thinner, lighter, as powerful, are more readily available, and hold lots more bullets. I suggest you look into them, too.
 
Bill DeShivs,
Thanks much and I respect your opinion greatly... Truth is I have a brand new Glock 26... small, light, etc... I also have a Seecamp, invisible for CC... Beautiful pistols. but I'm just reluctant to bring a pistol for CC because I'm afraid it might jam when I need it most. Yep, its a 1 in 1000 chance, but, still I don't like those odds.
Now, revolvers... I LOVE revolvers and revolver reliability (I use a Ruger service six for the house), and have been seriously looking at the S&W 642, but it is just a tad too wide for my CC purposes... The revolver barrel, even on a snubbie 38, is just going to give me away (again, in my business, if you even mention you have a gun they label you as a nut, sad but true)...
So my logic was, for personal self defense, being in the city with innocents everywhere, I'd never shoot until I would be absolutely 100% sure I'd be hitting my mark (a BG looking to do me in at very close range)... In this case he'd be close enough to make my one or two shots really count.
This is why all the questions about double action derringers...
I hope this makes sense and I hope it does not appear I am ignoring good advice from the experts on this forum. I value this community greatly.
 
Well, for whatever value this might have:
I've owned 2 American Derringers DA-38s, one in .38 Spl and one in .357 mag and 2 High Standard DM101 .22 WMR derringers. I liked them a lot. Relics of the past. Two shots, difficult to handle/shoot well. The .357 would literally blister your hand. They are no more concealable than a dozen or so airweights and micro-compacts out there today. They are all gone. No practical value.
Exactly what you asked not to hear. But the truth. Sorry. :o

For a tiny, concealable handgun, you might read this thread I started, which met with some ridicule.
When an LCP is too big
 
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I am just not a fan of these. Derringers are cute, but the one listed is overall heavier, bigger, except for length, & only 2 shots, compared to several different semi's that carry 6-7 shots.
 
2cooltoolz:

On the contrary, this is the exact advice I want to hear, I appreciate it. If I can ask you a few questions about your DA 38s you once had...

1. reliability- Approximately how many rounds went through them and did you ever experience a misfire?

2. aim- what is the maximum distance in which you would feel comfortable still being able to hit center mass area on a human paper target?

3. ammo-Bill DeShivs recommends 148 gr. wadcutters for "a nice, clean hole, and mild recoil" and also because the short barrel might not be conducive to mushrooming... What is your personal experience and recommendations concerning ammo for a personal defense, "up close and personal" situations?

Thank you!
PS- I appreciated your thread "When an LCP is too big"!
 
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