Hi power Tangent sight value

J

johnwilliamson062

Moderator
What would a low end value of a serviceable very little finish no pitting T series hi power be? I ran across one for what I think is stupid cheap. I want a hipower shooter and this might be better since it is a bit of an oddity.
 
My guess would be about $400. I base this on what it would cost to properly refinish the gun and would it would be worth nicely refinished. I think something like that would go for about $700+/- refinished.
 
The T series tangent no stock cut Hi Powers were made only a few years and marketed as the " Captain", in fair condition it is still worth upwards of a grand ( bluing wear no pitting). Nice pistol and I know where it could be blued to look like new.
 
Ibmikey, I think you may be confusing the T-series Hi-Powers which were last produced in 1969, with the "Capitan" Hi-Powers that were produced in the late 1980s and 1990s.
 
Skans My guess would be about $400. I base this on what it would cost to properly refinish the gun and would it would be worth nicely refinished. I think something like that would go for about $700+/- refinished.
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A buffed and reblued HP isn't collectible. A $400 gun + $300 cost to refinish/reblue/restore does not equal $700.....often it is $$$$ you will not get back.

I wouldn't pay anywhere close to $700 for such a gun when I could get a nice original example for about the same price.............I paid $750 for my 99.9% T series Tangent.
 
It seems the opportunity has passed. The salesman I spoke to seems to have made some sort of mistake. The usual person for that department was back and quoted a price significantly more than before.
 
Bartholomew, Did run T series and later Captain together in the brain, had just read an article on HP's and got muddled as a result. My tangent is a pre war 17,000 serial range pistol in really remarkable condition, some times i get too deep in firearms and 55 Chevy statistics and what comes out "ain't necessarily so". I keep reference material handy for such boo boo's.
 
I wouldn't pay anywhere close to $700 for such a gun when I could get a nice original example for about the same price.............I paid $750 for my 99.9% T series Tangent.
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You might not. But, I would. I would love to find a nicely reblued T-Series Hi-Power that originally only had finish wear for $700. I already have a near-mint C-Series which is just too nice to shoot. I know T-Series are supposed to be nicer than C-Series, but they aren't nicer than my C-Series. Anyway, to me, it would be worth $700 to have a really nice looking T-Series that I could shoot!

For clarification, I'm talking about a run-of-the-mill T-Series. Not a rare variant, which might include one with Tangent sights. I don't know if such a gun is rare or not as I've never really been interested in Hi-Powers with the tangent sights.
 
This was a rare variant. Lets just say a zero was dropped on the price and if I had inspected the gun before I might have seen some proof marks. Makes me wonder, if I'd forked over cash on the spot would I have made it past the cashier before they realized the mistake? Would I have missed the proof marks and had it refinished unknowingly? Nothing I am going to lose sleep over though.
 
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Ibmikey, I think you may be confusing the T-series Hi-Powers which were last produced in 1969, with the "Capitan" Hi-Powers that were produced in the late 1980s and 1990s.
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The T series was produced until 1972. Early C series guns arrived in 1969. There was some overlap. FN is horrible about transition dates and had no issues using leftover parts after transitions or changes in design. The names "captain" and "vigilante" were introduced in 1971.

To the OP I know the gun is gone but IMHO it was worth $400-$500 depending on condition of the metal. There are lots of tangent guns with T serial numbers. They continued to produce them under T serial numbers, C series and even 245 destination. They are a lot more of them out there then people think. Many people pays premium for T series guns but again IMHO C series guns are of the same quality in terms of fit and finish. Especially the early ones.

A good high gloss re-blue will cost you $250-&400 depending on who does it. Most of the time you will not get your money back on a refinish if you have to sell. For collector value you are better off leaving it as is but there is a lot of appeal to do it for aesthetic reasons. Ones in excellent condition are hard to find under $1000 these days.

Also another thing about the tangent models with the stock slot unless you have the original stock you cannot put a reproduction on it because it will be considered an SBR. The original stock would be ok because it would fall under C&R rules IIRC.
 
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Ibmikey, looks like you were right to begin with - Browning used the "Capitan" designation to market the tangent sighted pre-MkII Hi-Powers as well as the later MkII and MkIII Hi-Powers. I've never seen a T or C marked tangent sight Hi-Power sold commercially so I was only familiar with the later marketing.

I only vaguely remember the "Vigilante" marketing as that is starting to hit the era where I wasn't reading a lot of gun marketing ;)
 
The T series was produced until 1972. Early C series guns arrived in 1969. There was some overlap.
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This is new information to me. I had no idea that T-Series were produced during the same as the C-Series. This tells me that when it comes to T and C series guns, you can't derive too much information from the letters.
 
This is new information to me. I had no idea that T-Series were produced during the same as the C-Series. This tells me that when it comes to T and C series guns, you can't derive too much information from the letters.
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Past 1969 the majority of the BHPs produced were C series guns but some Ts were still made until 1972. At that point FN was producing only C series guns until the introduction of the 245 serial number naming system. The T series designation does not really denote a production change. It mainly was an inventory control tool for FN. No changes to the design or production of the parts was changed. What was changed was the process used to blue the guns. Even in 1969 FN was pinching pennies to make more guns faster and at a lower cost.

One of the reasons some many people prize these pistols is because they were the last salt blue BHP pistols which received a lot of hand polishing. Prior to 1962-1963 BHPs were rust blued. In 1969-1970 the C series designation was again more of an inventory tool there are no real changes to the design or function of the gun. What did change is the bluing process. The salt bluing was highly automated. The polishing and bluing was not done with as much hand labor at prior to 1969.

So really when one is looking at a T series you are looking a gun with superior bluing and polishing. When a gun is worn the "value" of a T series is greatly diminished. Later T series and early C series are identical because they were blued using the same process. IMHO when looking for a T series you want to get a 1968 or older gun in pristine condition, if you are going to pay a premium. Guns before 1969 are the best of the breed. By 1969- 1972 T series is only different than a C series because the serial number is using a different naming convention. The guns are for all intents and purposes the same. This is why I like to examine and evaluate each example of a T or C series gun in person if possible. These days it is not so easy to do so sometimes you just have to pictures posted on the web. This is why I will not buy a T series at a premium price unless the photographs stellar because what you are really paying for is the finish.
 
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Well, I never picked the gun up in my hands. It was at a pawn shop and they claim it was WWII production with Nazi proof marks and want $3000. I didn't inspect or look that information up as that is not of any interest to me. I'd like a Hi Power shooter I could run a 22lr conversion on, not a precious collectible.

I said T series b/c I was told that designates tangent sight. I'm not so sure that is true at this point. Really not of interest to me. I want a shooter I can refinish.
 
Well, I never picked the gun up in my hands. It was at a pawn shop and they claim it was WWII production with Nazi proof marks and want $3000. I didn't inspect or look that information up as that is not of any interest to me. I'd like a Hi Power shooter I could run a 22lr conversion on, not a precious collectible.
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They are out of their mind. A pristine Waffen proofed BHP might be worth $3000 to the right collector but outside of that 1 in a million buyer they would have a hard time selling unless it is really mint, like 99% mint.

Also it could not be a T series BHP if it has Waffen Proofs. The Nazis started production in Liege in May of 1940. These early guns had tangent sights but no shoulder stock slot. The Nazi proof mark "WaA613" did not get put on pre-war parts until Sept of that year.

In the Nov-Dec 1940 timeframe new production parts started to roll off the Liege lines. The Nazis modified the the barrel lug on new production guns. In Nov-Dec 1941 the WaA140 acceptance stamp was in use and these guns had the tangent sight along with the slot in the frame for a shoulder stock. Occupation production continued until 1944. Before that time the Eagle/N markings replaced the WaA140 markings for tangent slight guns. No Nazi High Powers had a T prefix serial number to my knowledge.

All of this info can be found in Anthony Vanderlindens book FN Browning Pistols.

As a side note the Waffen proofed guns are highly collectible but mechanically speaking they are some of the worst guns produced and the Herstal plant. The Nazis took over the plant and used forced labor to produce those pistols. There was documentation of a lot of sabotage on the production line and on top of that the fitting and the finishing of the pistol even when manufactured properly was poor due to the volume requirements of the war effort. They still command high $$$ but they are not shooters IMHO.
 
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That's why I've always valued the T-series. In my mind, they are synonymous with that unimaginable bluing job you just don't see anymore. Of course, it is hard to find one without the finish wear these days.
 
WVsig
They continued to produce them under T serial numbers, C series and even 245 destination.
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About seven or eight years ago Vector Arms imported some tangent HP's with 511 prefixes.



.....Also another thing about the tangent models with the stock slot unless you have the original stock you cannot put a reproduction on it because it will be considered an SBR. The original stock would be ok because it would fall under C&R rules IIRC.
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Only certain versions of the Hi Power have been removed from the purview of the NFA. Most definitely do not put a shoulder stock of any type without checking the ATF Curio & Relic list.

A "run of the mill" T series w/tangent sight with stock is NOT exempt from the NFA.
 
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