Hi power question

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Ok... This may be a very simple question to answer but I have never been accused of being smart so I just need someone to explain it to me.

I like hi powers... A lot. Probably my favorite pistol next to a SAA to shoot and I wish I could carry one which leads to my question.

With the exception of a few custom gunsmiths and the FM detective, is there a reason hi powers have not been built less than the full size weapon? 1911's have the 3", 4" and 5" models... Micro, CCO, defender, commander, etc., but there isn't the options I am aware of in the hi power line.

I don't want to carry a full size and would like to find something smaller but something like a Behlert can be hard to find and very expensive. Just wondering if it is something in the design or what. Thanks to everyone in advance who may have the answer...
 
I suspect it's because there wasn't sufficient demand prior to the proliferation of "wonder nines", and then it was too late.
 
IMHO there was never enough demand for a smaller Hi Power. The BHP was always a military side arm. It is a duty weapon.

The growth in concealed carry is a fairly recent thing which has created a larger market for smaller compact and subcompact sized guns. As much as I love the BHP there are better poly and alloy platforms on which to built smaller 9mms.

For FN/Browning the Hi Power is not a priority these days so they have not developed one. They make more $$$ on other designs but still manage to sell every BHP they produce. So now that there might be demand they will not produce it.

I think the only real way to go is a custom gun and only with someone who knows the BHP well enough to alter it and still get it to run reliability. It will be pricey.

C&S would be my choice. They made the Pathfinder I am not sure they still do.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/pathfinder.shtml

path4.jpg
 
I would say part of the reason a compact Hi-Power didn't become popular was that the 1911 already occupied the market for a compact 9mm handgun.

In 1950, Colt was already offering a 9mm commander 1911 that happened to also be the first aluminium alloy frame production handgun. Tough to beat that.

America's love with the 1911 has pretty much solidified demand for the platform for the last few decades.

There are a few (no longer produced) Hi-Power clones that come in compact varieties. A few that come to mind are the Browning BDA Compact and FM Detective.

Not enough current demand is the short answer.
 
WVsig is correct. The 1911 really is no longer a duty weapon; today it is more of a hobby/cult gun and that market will buy endless variations on its favorite handgun. The HP has mostly been a duty gun, for military, paramilitary and police, and they were satisfied with the standard model.

That market has now gone to more modern weapons and the HP hobbyists are not numerous enough to interest FN in making changes to the old gun. Also, note that seveal efforts to produce a modernized HP were not very successful and did not offer encouragement to the maker in that direction.

Jim
 
I would say part of the reason a compact Hi-Power didn't become popular was that the 1911 already occupied the market for a compact 9mm handgun.

In 1950, Colt was already offering a 9mm commander 1911 that happened to also be the first aluminium alloy frame production handgun. Tough to beat that.

America's love with the 1911 has pretty much solidified demand for the platform for the last few decades.

There are a few (no longer produced) Hi-Power clones that come in compact varieties. A few that come to mind are the Browning BDA Compact and FM Detective.

Not enough current demand is the short answer.
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I disagree. The 9mm Commander was never a big seller and was not a double stack 9mm. It is a completely different animal. IMHO.

Yes Americans love the 1911 but until recently the love has been for the 1911 in 45. Even today I would estimate 9 of 10 1911s sold in this country are chambered in 45 ACP.

The BDA is not a Hi Power clone it is a DA gun which was based on the Hi Power design but it differs in many ways and calling it a clone is a stretch. IHMO.

FM is the only "clone" ever mass produced in a shorter barreled configuration.

I do agree that demand or lack there of is the major reason it was never developed.
 
That market has now gone to more modern weapons and the HP hobbyists are not numerous enough to interest FN in making changes to the old gun. Also, note that seveal efforts to produce a modernized HP were not very successful and did not offer encouragement to the maker in that direction.
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Charles Daly was last company to attempt to market a Hi Power clone. They were FEG parts assembled first by Dan Wesson and then by Magnum Research. Even with upgraded features like XS sights, Uncle Mike Grips designed by Spegel they did not sell well at the $400 price point.

IIRC they lost money on every single one they sold.

FN also tried to update the BHP with the SFS which was developed by C&S but in the end those FN rollmarked guns along with the other remaining SA FN Hi Powers of that time were ultimately sold by FN to CDNN who sold them for $399 at one point. I should have bought 10 at that price.

I love the Hi Power and own a few but in the end they number of people into them is getting smaller. They are not winning any new contracts. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of them in the used/surplus market so the market for new production HPs is limited at best.

If you really want a short barreled BHP say your coin get a base gun and send it off to C&S.
 
I remember getting my FM Hi-power NIB for $299.00 & you could have got the Detective "kit" slide barrel G/R & spring for $150.00 more. Like a ass I did not order the Detective kit with it.:( I wish I had because I still have that Hi-power in like NIB. It's a nice gun I put wood grips on it looks even better. I Most likely will be selling it soon & the Detective kit would go nice with it. What do you guy's think it would go for? I remember seeing them going for $329.00 but they where all beat to hell.:eek:
 
As others have indicated the FM Detective is the only shortend version of the High Power made commercially. Finding one at an affordable price is akin to winning the lottery. If FN entered the market place with a Detective today it would sell like hotcakes for bthe first year then sales would probably slow to the point of being unpropular as light weight poly, DAO firing systems and all the other compacts of today become competitors.
 
I don't think the Hi-Power is so big it can't be carried concealed just as easily as a Glock 19 or some of the other popular guns these days. Heavier yes, but no bigger.
 
Yeah, I found the P35 very easy to carry in standard form, and did so for many years.
It was only after I got a Glock 26 a few years ago, and found I shot it as well or better than the Hipower that I switched my carry nine.
 
WVsig said:
Charles Daly was last company to attempt to market a Hi Power clone. They were FEG parts assembled first by Dan Wesson and then by Magnum Research. Even with upgraded features like XS sights, Uncle Mike Grips designed by Spegel they did not sell well at the $400 price point.
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I think Charles Daly shot themselves in the foot by putting such a huge billboard with their name on the slide of their Hi Power clone. Shop I worked at, back when that was released, had a Die hard Hi Power Collector that just couldn't get over the billboard.

2eai7iw_th.jpg
 
Another thing is that the Hi-Power has a shorter barrel and a shorter butt than a standard 1911 and actually conceals quite well with a good holster even in full size. So a chopped Hi-Power is king of like a Glock 26 to a Glock 19 comparison.

Honestly, there is nothing that would please me more than to see Hi-Powers get the "Kimber" treatment and start being sold as production models with all the custom changes everyone does already made. But the people who pointed out the past attempts to market the Hi-Power failed spectacularly are not wrong. For some reason, the Hi-Power never caught on, even as 200 companies are now making production-custom 1911s.

The Hi-Power is probably one of the most commonly encountered pistols in the rest of the world. I'm not sure why the American market remains so impenetrable for it.
 
There was a gunsmith in my old neck of the woods named Austin Behlert who used to turn out a chopped BHP, such as this one;
 

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I think Charles Daly shot themselves in the foot by putting such a huge billboard with their name on the slide of their Hi Power clone. Shop I worked at, back when that was released, had a Die hard Hi Power Collector that just couldn't get over the billboard.
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I think you might be onto something there. I suspect most Hi-Power buyers are pretty conservative and wouldn't find that attractive at all.
 
drobs said:
I think Charles Daly shot themselves in the foot by putting such a huge billboard with their name on the slide of their Hi Power clone. Shop I worked at, back when that was released, had a Die hard Hi Power Collector that just couldn't get over the billboard.
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In my humble opinion it was offered way to late in the wonder 9 game. By the time it was offered most people had moved on to tactical plastic.

On boards like this we forget that we are not the majority of gun owners. If you walk into your local shop today and wait and ask 25 customers what was the first large capacity 9mm I bet very few would come up with the Browning Hi Power. I think it was timing more than anything.

Within the BHP fanboy world it was well known that the CDs were FEG guns with different rollmarks. People never bought a ton of FM or FEG clones either and they did not have hugeroll marks. The XS sights were also a turn off for many. If you bought one you were in for $100 to get the sights swapped out.

In the end it failed because it didn't offer enough over the FN rollmarked guns which were blown out around $400 by CDNN at the same time, surplus BHPs and the Browning marked guns. The "demand" was already being met by the current supply.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Another thing is that the Hi-Power has a shorter barrel and a shorter butt than a standard 1911 and actually conceals quite well with a good holster even in full size. So a chopped Hi-Power is king of like a Glock 26 to a Glock 19 comparison.

Honestly, there is nothing that would please me more than to see Hi-Powers get the "Kimber" treatment and start being sold as production models with all the custom changes everyone does already made. But the people who pointed out the past attempts to market the Hi-Power failed spectacularly are not wrong. For some reason, the Hi-Power never caught on, even as 200 companies are now making production-custom 1911s.

The Hi-Power is probably one of the most commonly encountered pistols in the rest of the world. I'm not sure why the American market remains so impenetrable for it.
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I agree with a lot of this. The BHP is very concealable in its original form if you are willing to get a good rig and carry in the waist band. I carry them in a Milt Spark VMII and can do it 365/24 if I needed to. In the summer it does require a larger T-shirt or polo. One of mine it an alloy which was customized by Don Williams @ The Action Works. Empty it weights about the same as a Glock 19.







In the end there is not enough demand for these pistols and even fewer of people who have the means to pay for them. There is a smith who is making a run of 30 pistols from the ground up. It is Chuck Warner who has a very mixed rep. Depending on who you believe last time his shop went belly up he cheated people out of parts and pistols in his bankruptcy.

Specs are something like this:

Stainless Steel frame and slide machined from billet
No firing pin block safety
No magazine disconnect
No-bite hammer
Extended 1911 style thumb safety
Carry Bevel
4.5 – 5 lb trigger pull
Decent 3 dot night sites with a white ring around the front tritium vial

EWA_96870_zpsqddv1ehh.jpg


He has a lightweight version in the production mix as well. He has talked about making a 4" version but he will have to sell a lot of the custom 5" pieces to move to 4" version and honestly I do not see them selling a ton because it will have to be sold at a custom BHP price and there are not a ton of people out there who are willing to pay that price. We are talking $2000+ They are really akin to a full house custom 1911. If it were my money at that price I would take a base stock BHP out of the safe and send it to Ted Yost and be done with it about about $2500 LOL.

If someone tooled up a 4" barrel I doubt the cost could every be recouped. Not when you can buy a Glock 19 or Glock 26 which has better name recognition these days for $500.
 
Dang I just got into hipowers and while the are slimmer and more lightweight than about any other steel 9mm it is strange they didn't get the boutique treatment. More people it seems would rather have a 9mm 1911 instead for some reason.
 
... is there a reason hi powers have not been built less than the full size weapon? 1911's have the 3", 4" and 5" models... Micro, CCO, defender, commander, etc., but there isn't the options I am aware of in the hi power line...
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Seems to me Hi-Power development/variations have been continued or evolved through the CZ emanations and the various CZ-like clones which come in different sizes/configurations and fill the void well enough.

Stephen A. Camp offers many insights into that subject here:
http://hipowers-handguns.blogspot.com/2008/06/browning-hi-power-cz-75-are-they.html

And more ideas here: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ-75 or BHP.htm
 
Seems to me Hi-Power development/variations have been continued or evolved through the CZ emanations and the various CZ-like clones which come in different sizes/configurations and fill the void well enough.
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You are IMHO misreading Mr. Camp's article. The CZ is not an evolution of the BHP they are loosely related but so are so many other guns which employ JMB's barrels with locking lugs and recoil operation.

So many people think they are more similar than they actually are base solely on their external looks. If you shoot them back to back you will notice that in the real world they are very different designs. IMHO
 
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