Hi-Power Extractor Issues

B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
I have a 1995 Hi-Power MkIIIS with about 40,000 rounds on it. The gun had custom work that included a Novak's reliability job and a Roguard/NP3 finish. The gun was solid and ultra-reliable on extraction - it went thousands of rounds with no cleaning, no problem. Somewhere in the mid-30k area, the extractor claw snapped off.

I ordered a new extractor with NP3 finish and a new Wolff extractor spring and installed both. After the first 200 rounds, I started having about a 1-2% fail to extract rate. I replaced the Wolff spring with a factory Browning extractor spring. That solved the problem for about 500-750 rounds then the failures to extract returned.

I've since replaced the new NP3 extractor with a known good extractor and extractor spring from another Hi-Power MkIIIS. Extractor tension is good and you can slide a round underneath the extractor claw and there is enough tension to hold the round against the breech even if you shake the slide. Yet, my fail to extract problems continue, especially as the round count goes up in a single session.

Suggestions?
 
You are assuming that the breakage of the original extractor was the problem, but may be it was a symptom of another problem, like a corroded chamber or hot ammo, that is putting excessive strain on the extractor. That could cause a failure to extract as well as (worst case) a broken extractor.

Jim
 
Maybe it is time to clean the gun? [emoji12]

OK what exactly did you mean "fail to extract"? The spent brass was left in the chamber? Do you reload? Have you been shooting the same batch of brass?

-TL
 
I'd be ashamed to admit it went thousands of rounds with no cleaning, no problem. Somewhere in the mid-30k area, the extractor claw snapped off.

Look else where for you problem
 
Well, when I say "no problem" - I mean "no extraction problems." There have been plenty of parts that broke over that period of use.

Ammo has been mostly Blazer aluminium FMJ - probably 80% or so. The remainder is a mix of Blazer Brass, PMC, and premium self-defense ammo (including +P and even +P+). Reloads are probably a few hundred rounds out of that total count, so I don't think brass is an issue. When I say fail to extract, I mean the brass is still in the chamber - usually loose enough it can be shaken out but on two occasions I had to pry/poke it out.

I am beginning to think James is probably closest to the mark. The pistol had a match barrel in it for awhile before the camming lug on that barrel broke. The original barrel set in the garage with some tools and it developed some light pitting in the rifling near the muzzle and a bit on the exterior. You can hardly tell it now as 30,000 round of FMJ will polish light pitting right out; but you can still spot some in the grooves.

I think that barrel may just be hitting the end of its service life - or at least the end of a service life where it can do a 3-5 day course at 700-1200 rounds per day and still have reliable extraction.
 
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Small wonder it's acting up.
Eghads, clean that thing once in awhile.

For what it's worth, a local gunsmith, who has built quite a few 1911s and High Powers for the local competitors, sez not to expect High Powers to hold up anywhere nearly as long as 1911s.
Or as long as many of the more recent striker designs, either.
His wife and a couple of her friends prefer the High Power for match guns, but they all have more than one and rotate them.
 
I would love to own a 1969 Z28.
Click to expand...

I'm going to suggest that you posted in the wrong forum.

This is The Firing Line, so unless you were going to get into questions about firing No. 1 cylinder on Top Dead Center . . . . :D

Bart Noir
 
No, I posted for humor but it wasn't funny. So how thick is the MP3, could blue or stainless extractor be answer? Could be the thickness of that treatment is causing problem.
 
I've replaced the NP3 extractor with a known good blued extractor from another pistol so that is not the issue. Both extractors will hold a cartridge firmly against the breechface with the slide removed and the rim slid under the extractor.

At this point, I'm thinking the chamber is the issue. It has been completely degreased and cleaned. Zero carbon residue visible to the naked eye. I'm going to give it a try and see if the result is any different.
 
Well, ran 200 rounds through it with no problems this afternoon. That is still a marginal test given that I'm usually not seeing the problems crop up until around 200 rounds.

My current hypothesis is that the pistol was cleaned mostly with CLP meeting milspec-D or better. Which by definition means it only has to remove 80% of carbon fouling - which was good enough for function up to about 35k; but 20% of 35k is still a lot of gunk. There may be some wear issues compounding this as well. So far so good. I plan to shoot it without cleaning to failure or the next 1000 rounds.
 
Some good advice here, but I'd recommend asking the question at 1911 forum dot com, in the BHP section. I haven't found any other website with an area for the BHP that was so frequently read/commented in by such knowledgeable people.

I am NOT deriding ANYONE here, but this is a general semi-auto forum. Many of us have good advice to give.

Yet, the same question at a BHP only area might get a higher concentration of helpful suggestions.


One not-so-helpful comment I will make- I seem to recall that the 'service life' predicted for a BHP is around 30-40,000 rounds. I could EASILY be wrong. It all depends on maintenance and loads used [and cast/forged frame- which yours should be the stronger cast one].

That includes spring updates, etc.

Similar maintenance on a 1911 should see it reaching high 5 digits to the 6 digit area.

[no glock talk here, but good ole steel SA semi-autos only. ;)]


My best guess is that the chamber needs a good polish/hone.

OR, the chamber is now oversized from use [can that even happen?], causing the brass to swell beyond its elastic ability to quickly snap back, and the extractor is attempting to pull the shell out while it is oversized. :confused:

That last point I just made up. And it shows. But, I am trying!:D
 
I had a barrel that was inspected after I experienced gas coming back in my face and occasional failures to extract; the chamber was slightly oval in shape, and there was a depression at 6:00, into which cases would expand when fired.
As you suggest, it caused enough drag to resist extraction.
 
Thanks RickB!

So, I am always willing to go out on a limb, but it is reassuring when I find out that there is actually a real limb there that I am on, and not a fantasy limb I think I am standing on[think elmer fudd and many of the tricks bugs played on him].

Would I be right in believing the only solution was a new barrel? What type of firearm was it: handgun, rifle, etc? Any indication of number of rounds?
 
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