You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Herters 7.62x39 154gr Question
- Thread starter celtgun
- Start date
I wasn't aware that Herter's was making/importing it. I've shot some of the apparently discontinued Wolf ammo in 154 gr, and really liked it. Surprisingly, it shot to almost the same point of aim as the standard 123 gr stuff.
For deer, I imagine it would be better than the 123 gr soft points.
I have shot two smallish hogs with the 123 gr Federal soft points, and if I had the chance to do it again, I'd definitely choose the 154 gr over the lighter load.
edit: forgot to mention I was shooting my SKS. I think the 154 gr stuff would be great for smaller deer, probably out to 150-200 yds, if you can put the bullet where it needs to go.
For deer, I imagine it would be better than the 123 gr soft points.
I have shot two smallish hogs with the 123 gr Federal soft points, and if I had the chance to do it again, I'd definitely choose the 154 gr over the lighter load.
edit: forgot to mention I was shooting my SKS. I think the 154 gr stuff would be great for smaller deer, probably out to 150-200 yds, if you can put the bullet where it needs to go.
Celtgun: I haven't used the Herters, but I have used Silver Bear. [Both are Russian] I have also used Sellier & Belliot [sp may be off].
Silver Bear 123 gr HP will group into 1.5" from my CZ 527 carbine. It will penetrate 3 water filled gallon milk jugs lined up in a row at 35 yards. Bits of the bullet can be found in the second and third milk jug. This ammo does kill Pennsylvania white tail deer quickly with a broadside lung shot. I sure would avoid a Texas heart shot though. This ammo is real cheap to buy.
The S&B costs more but performs better. The 123 gr soft points will group into 1". On water jugs they will penetrate 4 jugs and retain 80% of their weight. They give the classic mushroom. Thes ammo works well on deer.
The very best load we have found is a Hornady 123 gr SP pushed by 27 gr. of Reloader 7. This load shoots into .75" at 100 yards. It stops in the 5th milk jug. It expands to 65 caliber while retaining 85% of its weight. This load is cheaper than the S&B but does cost more than the Silver Bear. It is very clean shooting and cases seem to last forever. If I need to do more than this load will do, I get a bigger gun.
Silver Bear 123 gr HP will group into 1.5" from my CZ 527 carbine. It will penetrate 3 water filled gallon milk jugs lined up in a row at 35 yards. Bits of the bullet can be found in the second and third milk jug. This ammo does kill Pennsylvania white tail deer quickly with a broadside lung shot. I sure would avoid a Texas heart shot though. This ammo is real cheap to buy.
The S&B costs more but performs better. The 123 gr soft points will group into 1". On water jugs they will penetrate 4 jugs and retain 80% of their weight. They give the classic mushroom. Thes ammo works well on deer.
The very best load we have found is a Hornady 123 gr SP pushed by 27 gr. of Reloader 7. This load shoots into .75" at 100 yards. It stops in the 5th milk jug. It expands to 65 caliber while retaining 85% of its weight. This load is cheaper than the S&B but does cost more than the Silver Bear. It is very clean shooting and cases seem to last forever. If I need to do more than this load will do, I get a bigger gun.
Herters was a sporting goods and mail-order store, similar to Cabelas that went out of business years ago. I have some old Herters .243 brass from the 1960's and it is pretty good.
From what I see on the web, an Indonesian company bought the trademark, and is repackaging Russian ammo for the US Market.
Evidently it is Tula/Wolf.
http://lonelymachines.org/2010/07/19/herters-ammunition-isnt/
From what I see on the web, an Indonesian company bought the trademark, and is repackaging Russian ammo for the US Market.
Evidently it is Tula/Wolf.
http://lonelymachines.org/2010/07/19/herters-ammunition-isnt/
spacecoast
New member
I just bought some Herters from Cabelas and it has the Tula head stamp.
A combination of heavier than normal bullet weight(lower velocity), soft point with a bi-metal jacket(?) seems a recipe for less than optimum bullet performance.
This stuff may be(most likely is) different from what I've heard guys telling stories about no expansion on game and punching through like FMJ.
This stuff may be(most likely is) different from what I've heard guys telling stories about no expansion on game and punching through like FMJ.
plateshooter
New member
From my personal experience. I have killed two hogs 250lbs + using the Wolf 154gr soft point. Neither hog took a step after it was shot. Both hogs had a tennis ball size exit wound. One was shot with a SAR 1 AK type rifle, and the other was with an AR in 762X39. The range was approximately 75 yards for both. I will be using that same round again on this years hog shoot.
I like the round, it has given me no reason not to. So far, 2 hogs, 2 rounds. I still have 18 left.
I like the round, it has given me no reason not to. So far, 2 hogs, 2 rounds. I still have 18 left.
bamaranger
New member
150's
I have no experience with Herters/Tula 154gr x39mm ammo. But I can tell you that most .30 cal 150 gr spitzers are intended for higher velocity than the x39mm can generate. So expansion is usually limited when the slugs arrive at speeds lower than they were designed to ideally expand. This is typically pointed out in the loading manuals, and I have seen it in print on articles on loading for x39mm as well.
So it all depends what Ivan Tula did with the 154gr slug discussed. If they simply took the x54R slug and plugged it into the shorter x39mm case) it may not expand very well at all.
Reloaded 150gr round and flat nose softpoints intended for .30-30 will expand at x39mm velocity. And I suspect that 150 gr round noses intended for the big boys will likely expand better than a spitzer, but not as much as the .30-30 class slugs. I just loaded up about 100 x39mm rounds with .30-30/150 gr flat noses and hope to wack a deer with some this coming season.
I have no experience with Herters/Tula 154gr x39mm ammo. But I can tell you that most .30 cal 150 gr spitzers are intended for higher velocity than the x39mm can generate. So expansion is usually limited when the slugs arrive at speeds lower than they were designed to ideally expand. This is typically pointed out in the loading manuals, and I have seen it in print on articles on loading for x39mm as well.
So it all depends what Ivan Tula did with the 154gr slug discussed. If they simply took the x54R slug and plugged it into the shorter x39mm case) it may not expand very well at all.
Reloaded 150gr round and flat nose softpoints intended for .30-30 will expand at x39mm velocity. And I suspect that 150 gr round noses intended for the big boys will likely expand better than a spitzer, but not as much as the .30-30 class slugs. I just loaded up about 100 x39mm rounds with .30-30/150 gr flat noses and hope to wack a deer with some this coming season.
sc928porsche
New member
Speer still makes soft point bullets in .311 diameter. 150 and 180 gr. I use the 150 in the x39 and 180 in the x54R for hunting. Both expand well in game. I prefer the .311 diameter bullet because it give a little better grouping. As for the store bought stuff, I don't know. I havn't fired any of it in years.
Using my 16" barrel AR in 7.62x39, I sighted in a 4x scope at 200 yards using first fmj 122grain to get close and finishing with 154grain Wolf.
The point of impact of the 154gr was pretty close to the 122gr and held what I considered to be good groups, considering my short barrel: about 4".
Unfortunately, I didn't run across a deer that season, so I have no report on terminal effects.
The point of impact of the 154gr was pretty close to the 122gr and held what I considered to be good groups, considering my short barrel: about 4".
Unfortunately, I didn't run across a deer that season, so I have no report on terminal effects.
I am going to use the Tula 154 gr ammo in a Mini-30 for my Primary rifle in a Hog Hunt in Missouri in Mid-September. The wife will have her 44 mag carbine for her Hogs.
I'll report back in a month on how the larger bullet worked. I am getting under 3" groups at 100 yards, so I think I can hit the pig...but will that round kill it? We'll see.
I'll report back in a month on how the larger bullet worked. I am getting under 3" groups at 100 yards, so I think I can hit the pig...but will that round kill it? We'll see.
bamaranger
New member
no doubt
Oh, hit right, I have no doubt a .30 cal /154 at 2000 fps or so will kill a hog. A 150 FMJ will do same. The question is, will the Tula/Herters soft point expand and stop the hog cleanly, or not expand, drill through and leave a small wound channel and a hog that you'll need to shoot again, or will cover more ground than you want before it expires.
Porche928, I shoot the .311 Speer 150 in the x54R caliber. It is an example of a pointed, spitzer bullet intended for .303 Brit and 7.7 Jap velocities (and x54R) . The fact you are getting good results in x39mm is proof it can be done, and a credit to well placed shots. But I still believe a thinner jacketed slug intended for lowere velocities will give even better results. One advantage I have in my x39mm rifles is that both are bored .308 and I can use the .30-30/150 class slugs, and the various .30/150 roundnoses, without being limted to .311 diameter. The Speer .311/150 was available for the Brit and Jap cartridgesw long before x39mm became common and popular. I note in my Speer manual that the .311/150 is not listed as a slug recommended for x39mm, only the lighter 125.
Oh, hit right, I have no doubt a .30 cal /154 at 2000 fps or so will kill a hog. A 150 FMJ will do same. The question is, will the Tula/Herters soft point expand and stop the hog cleanly, or not expand, drill through and leave a small wound channel and a hog that you'll need to shoot again, or will cover more ground than you want before it expires.
Porche928, I shoot the .311 Speer 150 in the x54R caliber. It is an example of a pointed, spitzer bullet intended for .303 Brit and 7.7 Jap velocities (and x54R) . The fact you are getting good results in x39mm is proof it can be done, and a credit to well placed shots. But I still believe a thinner jacketed slug intended for lowere velocities will give even better results. One advantage I have in my x39mm rifles is that both are bored .308 and I can use the .30-30/150 class slugs, and the various .30/150 roundnoses, without being limted to .311 diameter. The Speer .311/150 was available for the Brit and Jap cartridgesw long before x39mm became common and popular. I note in my Speer manual that the .311/150 is not listed as a slug recommended for x39mm, only the lighter 125.