Here's a shooting "position" to consider.

J

jeager106

Moderator
I was a career police officer in a viollent hi crime rate city of about 50K
I was disabled "in the line" in '94.
When I made Lt. I was put in chage of deadly force training, read firearms.
My Sgt. & I came up with some scenereos many might not think about.
We did plenty of practice at bad breath distances & Sarge came up with one
that might very well happen.
He lay on the ground with his head towards the "bad guy" target, simulating being knocked down on his back with the bad guy intending to do
neferious things to him.
He'd shoot over his head at the "bad guy" with his duty & off duty piece.
I tried it and it's way harder than one might think.
I clear missed the bad guy several times before I learned to hit the target.
It may be a fanciful exercise but one that might happen.
One wonders what others would think if you tried this at a public range though.:confused::confused:
 
First.. Thanks for your service

Shooting from unconventential positions has become pretty mainstream in tactical training courses. Prone, supine, on both sides, under cars, thru holes in walls. All play a part in advanced tactical training. The proper use of cover is also stressed

How about shooting someone that has grabbed you in a rear naked choke?... Its harder to do then you might think. On your back with an attacker on top of you?? You on top of them??
 
I had a situation, the one that ended my career, when NOT going for my pistol was the right thing to do. ( I think )
I was 48, 5'10, 170, "he" was 23, 6-2, 220 & stoned on crack.
I had secured a warrent for him for aggrevated robbery, spotted him in the hood. He ran, I chased without a prayer of catching him but he tripped & I was on him, but who had who? :eek:
He was whooping me pretty bad & actually lifting me off the ground a bit with the butt of the pistol which was in a retention holster.
I thought for a second about shooting him (disparity of force & size etc) but figured as beat as I was & strong, young, stoned as he was it was likely he'd rip the gun away & shoot me with it.
I managed to get him in the "choke" hold, really a sleeper hold, & put him out.
I had a broken back, both knees blown out but didn't know it at the time.
That was my last arrest.
I spent 9 months, 5 days a week, in rehab getting use of the left leg back.
Maybe I could have shot him, maybe not.:confused:
 
I think its critical to learn to shoot, on your back, setting in a chair, couch, and seat belted in a car.

In my ladies shooting class I had the women lay on their back as if they were knocked on their butts at an ATM.

Hitting the target wasn't that big of a deal, getting to the handgun was the problem, many had to change their method of carry.

The problem, shooting up at that angle met holes in the ceiling. I had to wait on that scenario until the weather warmed up and we could move the class outside.

How about shooting someone that has grabbed you in a rear naked choke?... Its harder to do then you might think. On your back with an attacker on top of you?? You on top of them??
Click to expand...

PERSONAL DEFENSE NETWORK had an excellent video covering just that, I wont go into it because its THEIR video. I would recommend checking it out. They also have plenty other great videos covering other aspects of self defense.
 
I believe its called: the supine position...yet you'll have to spread your legs wide, and angle the feet outwards too avoid shooting off your own body parts. Magpull has a DVD section on it --- using a AR rifle with a single point sling --- though they recommend shooting the rifle with the arms extended; and not shouldering the piece --- almost the same as shooting a pistol.

I personally would use it for close range shots only...since a longer range shot, on level ground, will have the muzzle pointed to near too your legs or feet.

The Creedmoor position also comes to mind.
 
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Years ago I wanted to train my shooters to fire from their back. The trouble with that is the angle of the firearm. They'd have to be close to the berm to ensure that no bullet competes with NASA and soars over the berm to space and beyond.
 
Read McGivern's
Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting, he demonstrates some unconventional positions, but has the targets to back them up. I recall an article in a martial arts magazine years ago comparing various styles, had "On the Street" situations and scenarios, one of which was "When thrown to the ground." Be Prepared.
 
Years ago I wanted to train my shooters to fire from their back. The trouble with that is the angle of the firearm. They'd have to be close to the berm to ensure that no bullet competes with NASA and soars over the berm to space and beyond.
Click to expand...

Alternatively one could do that with a simple airsoft gun if resources are not available otherwise, even in your den.
 
shooting from positions of disadvantage

Shooting from positions of disadvantage (aka "Downed Officer Drills") are a great thing to do with AirSoft guns. You can practice anywhere, and prepare yourself for a circumstance where you can do it live fire safely.
 
The problem, shooting up at that angle met holes in the ceiling. I had to wait on that scenario until the weather warmed up and we could move the class outside.
Click to expand...
The folks who live down wind from the range might have something to say about that.
"Ma', is that rain I hear hitting the roof?"

Divots out of the floor are also possible.
Using Airsoft would seem to be a safe way to avoid the potential dangers.
Then going real slow at first with live fire, so as to assure accurate hits.
Then speed up as skills progress.
That's the way it was approached here, and no holes where they shouldn't be.
Just a thought.
 
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Wow...

SUPERB thinking, all around. We KNOW that armed people can get knocked on their posteriors any time, but who TRAINS for a response to it? In the process of training shooters to respond to the situation, eventually, better responses might be found, also.
 
Cirillo

Jim Cirillo, the NYPD cop, who went on to be a Instructor with the Feds after retirement, and who likely was in more gun fights than anybody in the recent era, came up with a course of fire like that in the mid to late 1980's, and called it Officer Down.

As it was done for FLETC, it was worked out in close detail, and involved the student loading and grounding the gun from standing, then obtaining the assorted down positions and then retrieving the gun (revolver by the way).
There was a good deal of attention paid to shooting over the knees instead of between them, and protecting oneself from incoming fire by drawing up the knees. Shooting overhead, while supine, requires a very high berm BTW.
 
First of all I want to thank those disabled in the service. My shooting partner did 3 tours in Vietnam, then was a police officer until retirement. Here in a small town of about 13000,he said we have as many calls as much larger cities(he grew up in LA) no, I didn't forget a 0. Thirteen thousand.

Any who, he has plenty of service scars, surgeries and stories. On the drives to the range, he has told me stories of how when you're in a scrap, you're really just trying to stay on top and really calm things down, but when the bad guy reaches for YOUR gun, things really change.

One of the issues I have with my wife caring is just that case. The bad guy gets HER gun that I have loaded with the nastiest, must destructive ammo I can find.

In Wyoming, self defense classes are nearly non existent. I do have a good friend who has many years of ninjutsu training (no joke, the dude is seriously a ninja) and has a modern self defense class, but that's 1200 miles away.
 
He lay on the ground with his head towards the "bad guy" target, simulating being knocked down on his back with the bad guy intending to do
neferious things to him.
Click to expand...
Without getting into the utility of the position in question, how does one get knocked on his back and end up with his head TOWARDS the bad guy?
 
Without getting into the utility of the position in question, how does one get knocked on his back and end up with his head TOWARDS the bad guy?
Click to expand...
I've been there and nearly disabled at the time. Quite odd how I got there. Certainly a low percentage event. I'm not sure the OP means that. It is much more common to practice the "supine" position.
 
Unfortuantely for alot of us not in law enforcement and furnishing our own ammuntion practicing from awkward positions may not be all that feasable. The 1500- 2500 rounds a year I can afford depending on my finances keeps me proficient at square range drills. Proficient to me being the ability to shoot the LFI qualifier clean. I'm a 2004 graduate. Or, to shoot the LFI qualifier at 2x speed with no more than 5 shots out of 60 outside the A zone of the IPSC target. Ideal, no, but unless someone else is going to furnish ammuntion that's the reality. I suspect lots of us are in the same boat.
 
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