warbirdlover
New member
You've tried your rifle free floated and with a pressure point. If the free floated shot good (1 MOA) and the pressure point shot better (3/4 MOA) which would you choose? 
Here's a POLL for ya
- Thread starter warbirdlover
- Start date
Palmetto-Pride
New member
Is this a trick question....wouldn't you always want what ever it took to make it shoot better?
Strange as it seems I chose the free floating bbl. The reasoning behind this being that pressure points tend to change with conditions (temperature with plastic humidity with wood.) My C.F. rifles are all free floated with the exception of my Mod.94 Win.Trapper. This works best for me,my rifles range from a 25-06 through to .375 H&H.
TGR
TGR
I voted free float, all my Savages are. I believe your problem with your Ruger is not due to the gun, but your loads. You've had it bedded and tightened and you are still experencing problems??
I do not think you have the correct Dwell time. You maybe trying to over-power the rifle with hot loads or too large a bullet for that barrel.
Have you tried different weight bullets and mid-range loads??? You need to find out what the rifle likes, not what you like.
Jim
When I purchased my Savage 110 in 270 Winchester, it absolutly loved Remington 130 Corelokt commercial ammo. Well I am not rich enough that it spends the rest of it's life shooting commercial ammo. Long story short, it took me three years to get the right combo of bullets, powder and OAL to get this 5 shot group:
Guess what it uses now?
I do not think you have the correct Dwell time. You maybe trying to over-power the rifle with hot loads or too large a bullet for that barrel.
Have you tried different weight bullets and mid-range loads??? You need to find out what the rifle likes, not what you like.
Jim
When I purchased my Savage 110 in 270 Winchester, it absolutly loved Remington 130 Corelokt commercial ammo. Well I am not rich enough that it spends the rest of it's life shooting commercial ammo. Long story short, it took me three years to get the right combo of bullets, powder and OAL to get this 5 shot group:
Guess what it uses now?
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If its a wood stock and has a chance of changing I would float it, if its a plastic stock I would go with what ever shoots best. Most of my sporter barrels shot best with pressure and heavy barrels seem to shoot best free floated. I say most of the time, BUT not always.
I had a Ruger 22-250 heavy barrel that had to have tip pressure.
I had a Ruger 22-250 heavy barrel that had to have tip pressure.
warbirdlover
New member
THIS is what I wondered about!!! More consistency all the time versus better groups starting out but who knows after the barrel heats up.
My Ruger isn't done yet (probably four more weeks) so don't know how that shoots. I'm just wanting to get a concensus on this scenario and how you guys would choose.
FrankenMauser
New member
Same rifle. Same same handload (same lot even). Different conditions.
Ruger M77 Mk II Sporter (SS/Laminate), .270 Winchester
140 gr Nosler Partition
55 gr RL-19
100 yards
Running groups (fired as fast as I could single-load, and get back on target).
Sorry about the crappy cell phone photo. It's all I had with both targets.
Top (Hornady Target):
94 degrees F, 80% humidity; beautiful, but windy.
0.485" center to center.
Bottom (White paper with a hint of an orange paster):
36 degrees F, 28% humidity, snowing.
Target was thrown away, but I believe it was around 0.980" for the group.
Pressure points on the fore-end.
Note how the second group is stringing from left to right, and bottom to top. It does that when the barrel is fired enough to get warm, in cold weather. But... it's predictable. Since 60% of my uses of this rifle are single, cold-bore shots taken to kill big game, I don't have an issue with it. The other 40%? It's warm at that time. So, I still don't have an issue with it. Besides... its still shooting MoA, even at its "worst".
(I know, they're just 3-shot groups, but it's consistent.)
Ruger M77 Mk II Sporter (SS/Laminate), .270 Winchester
140 gr Nosler Partition
55 gr RL-19
100 yards
Running groups (fired as fast as I could single-load, and get back on target).
Sorry about the crappy cell phone photo. It's all I had with both targets.
Top (Hornady Target):
94 degrees F, 80% humidity; beautiful, but windy.
0.485" center to center.
Bottom (White paper with a hint of an orange paster):
36 degrees F, 28% humidity, snowing.
Target was thrown away, but I believe it was around 0.980" for the group.
Pressure points on the fore-end.
Note how the second group is stringing from left to right, and bottom to top. It does that when the barrel is fired enough to get warm, in cold weather. But... it's predictable. Since 60% of my uses of this rifle are single, cold-bore shots taken to kill big game, I don't have an issue with it. The other 40%? It's warm at that time. So, I still don't have an issue with it. Besides... its still shooting MoA, even at its "worst".
(I know, they're just 3-shot groups, but it's consistent.)
Attachments
For a hunting rifle, I'd give up 1/4 minute of group for more consistent zero.
For a target rifle, grouping ability is more important, so I'd go with the tightest grouping. When on the range temperature, mirage, wind change point of impact, so re-zeroing is usually necessary to some extent.
When hunting, group size means less because a hunter can't re-zero when hunting most game, so a rifle/load combination that is well within the kill zone size within expected game shot distance is preferred. First shot from a clean, cold bore is usually most important.
For a target rifle, grouping ability is more important, so I'd go with the tightest grouping. When on the range temperature, mirage, wind change point of impact, so re-zeroing is usually necessary to some extent.
When hunting, group size means less because a hunter can't re-zero when hunting most game, so a rifle/load combination that is well within the kill zone size within expected game shot distance is preferred. First shot from a clean, cold bore is usually most important.
warbirdlover
New member
Hunting
In my opinioin, this is a total non sequitor. 1/4 moa difference means that your group at 500 yards will be only 1.25 inches larger. 500 yards at 1 moa would be, in theory, 5 inches. 3/4 moa would be 3-3/4 inches.
If you don't control the shot well enough that 1 inch at 400 yards will mean the difference between a clean kill and a miss, then you should not take that shot, regardless of whether it is 1 or even 3 moa of accuracy. Never take a shot that you can't guarantee with reasonable certainty a hit in a zone that will without a doubt disable the critter you are shooting at.
No matter what sort of rifle you have, pressure points may eventually cause point of impact shifts. to me, the question is simple. I will accept 1-2 MOA accuracy in a free floated barrel, because I'm a good shot with a rifle.
I don't own a non-floated barrel, because I got really tired of taking out a rifle every year, and finding that I missed point of aim with the first shots.
If I am ever called upon to take a life or death shot at long range, the last thing I want is to find that the point of impact on a human or animal has shifted from heart to either left shoulder or other non disabling point of impact.
If you don't control the shot well enough that 1 inch at 400 yards will mean the difference between a clean kill and a miss, then you should not take that shot, regardless of whether it is 1 or even 3 moa of accuracy. Never take a shot that you can't guarantee with reasonable certainty a hit in a zone that will without a doubt disable the critter you are shooting at.
No matter what sort of rifle you have, pressure points may eventually cause point of impact shifts. to me, the question is simple. I will accept 1-2 MOA accuracy in a free floated barrel, because I'm a good shot with a rifle.
I don't own a non-floated barrel, because I got really tired of taking out a rifle every year, and finding that I missed point of aim with the first shots.
If I am ever called upon to take a life or death shot at long range, the last thing I want is to find that the point of impact on a human or animal has shifted from heart to either left shoulder or other non disabling point of impact.
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