Henry 41 mag replacement

S

stagpanther

New member
As promised, I am doing a follow-up on the replacement 41 mag I received from Henry. After cleaning the bore with a few patches to get possible factory grease and debris out--I took her out last night for five shots of 210 xtp's. I was shooting with irons only at about 52 yds, grouping was about 4 or 5 inches, unremarkable though my eyes are pretty bad.

Upon returning home and doing a light cleaning, I noticed the bore at the muzzle looked like this:





My first thought is that it must be copper off the bullet jacket--but both copper-killer and bore-shine patches come through with no indication of copper. Even stranger--I can't discern rifling grooves at the end of the bore--it almost looks like a smooth bore choke.

I've never seen this on a new rifle before and is out of my league--any ideas?

PS--I have not slugged the bore yet
 
Nice pictures.
Can you see rifling further down the barrel?
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I believe I can see rifling further down, though I'm not positive--since it's a side-eject lever I can't get much light in there without resorting to a bore light or disassembly.
 
I am pretty sure I can see some rifling right there at the muzzle. Appears to have a 'land' from about 6 o'clock to say 5 o'clock and then again from 4 o'clock to 3 o'clock. If you look really close at the crown-to-bore transition you can see the lands/grooves. No idea what to tell you on what appears to be some light copper fouling, did you leave the copper cleaner in the bore for any amount of time?
 
I am pretty sure I can see some rifling right there at the muzzle. Appears to have a 'land' from about 6 o'clock to say 5 o'clock and then again from 4 o'clock to 3 o'clock. If you look really close at the crown-to-bore transition you can see the lands/grooves. No idea what to tell you on what appears to be some light copper fouling, did you leave the copper cleaner in the bore for any amount of time?
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What looks like grooves seems to be too many in number (I'm guessing the rifle has 5 at the very most--if that)--plus the streaks look pretty straight. i did not do a prolonged soaking of copper-cleaner. My concern is that the bullet would be squeezed enough by the bore diameter that it leaves that much fouling--that's gotta be slowing the bullet down and affecting it's accuracy I would think?
 
stagpanther%202016-06-25_10-13-12_zpsyshzbsg5.jpg


I think the only reasons you aren't seeing the lands is the crown machining is rough. This suggests recrowning might improve accuracy.

The streaks definitely look like copper, including the fact the inside corners of the rifling didn't get any. If I had it, I would apply one of the more assertive chelating copper removers, like KG-12 or Cu++. But Boreshine should work if you give it enough time.

Keep in mind that if you have heavy deposits you may need to let any cleaner sit for a bit. This article suggests 20 minutes does about all you can expect for a patched-in cleaner to keep working to exhaustion. If you've plugged and filled the bore, the solution will keep at it for much longer, though.

The other obvious thing to try is a soft abrasive cleaner like JB Bore Compound or my favorite for this type of work, Iosso Bore Cleaner. These will mechanically remove it.

One good thing about getting copper that far down the barrel is it shows the barrel is likely tightening a little going forward from the breech. That is generally good for accuracy.
 
Gave her a good soaking in copper killer and this time the patches came out blue--looks like I got rid of about 80% of the fouling. Compare this shot to the earlier ones--it is surprising to me that only 5 rounds through the barrel would cause so much fouling--notice how much more evident the lands are now. Is this typical of a lever? I've never noticed this on my rossi 44 mag.
 
That's how the lands/grooves appear on my Henry in 45 colt. Cannot speak to the copper fouling as I've only run LSWC down my bore (to date).
I get decent (approx 2" @ 50yds) standing accuracy from mine. I've hit a paper plate @ 100yds with it (a few times;)).
 
When I first bought the rifle and called Henry--I seem to recall they advised breaking it in using jacketed bullets before going to cast--I have a huge supply of hard lead WCs.
 
You've still got some copper to go. Check out the cleaners I mentioned and I think you'll be surprised how much faster they work than ammonia-based copper removers, plus they lack the odor. KG-12 has the most copper capacity, but it just turns darker orange as it works, so it's not a good indicator. The Bore Tech products, on the other hand, not only turn blue, but attack so fast you can't get a patch through on a brass jag before it has turned blue from attacking the jag. So you need a plastic or non-etchable alloy jag to check when the copper is gone.

The ideas behind barrel break-in vary. The makers of some hand-lapped custom bores will tell you it's a waste of good barrel life. Others say to clean 100% between each shot for at least 10 shots so you re-expose the sharp spots to be burnished by the next bullet. Then there are various schemes for gradually increasing the number of shots between cleanings, but I've never measured any real advantage after the first six to ten shots with individual cleaning. Once it has gone that far, you usually need to hand lap or firelap to get much further smoothing, though you can certainly polish the bore a little between each shot with the products I mentioned before and that will help a little.
 
You've still got some copper to go. Check out the cleaners I mentioned and I think you'll be surprised how much faster they work than ammonia-based copper removers, plus they lack the odor. KG-12 has the most copper capacity, but it just turns darker orange as it works, so it's not a good indicator. The Bore Tech products, on the other hand, not only turn blue, but attack so fast you can't get a patch through on a brass jag before it has turned blue from attacking the jag. So you need a plastic or non-etchable alloy jag to check when the copper is gone.

The ideas behind barrel break-in vary. The makers of some hand-lapped custom bores will tell you it's a waste of good barrel life. Others say to clean 100% between each shot for at least 10 shots so you re-expose the sharp spots to be burnished by the next bullet. Then there are various schemes for gradually increasing the number of shots between cleanings, but I've never measured any real advantage after the first six to ten shots with individual cleaning. Once it has gone that far, you usually need to hand lap or firelap to get much further smoothing, though you can certainly polish the bore a little between each shot with the products I mentioned before and that will help a little.
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+1--thanks for the advice;)
 
Went out today for another test run--this time with a 3 x 9 Leupold rifleman. After zeroing at 100 this is the best I could do off a bench with rests.

I think my brief love affair with a Henry lever is over. : )

 
I'm following this issue closely since I got mine not long after you. So far it's been just a fantastic rifle with only one flaw, I may go broke shooting it. I just checked the bore on mine and the lands are very distinct all the way to the end of the bore and has a nice crown as well. I've been shooting mostly Extreme Copper coated bullets and have been pushing them pretty hard at slightly over medium jacketed loads, and have experienced no copper buildup at all. I've also had no issues using HiTec coated hard cast bullets from Acme using the exact same load. So far no problems cleaning with normal procedure. Accuracy has been 1"-2" off bags at 50 yds and not much more even shooting offhand which I'm pretty happy with. Haven't tried at 100 yds yet.
 
I'm following this issue closely since I got mine not long after you. So far it's been just a fantastic rifle with only one flaw, I may go broke shooting it. I just checked the bore on mine and the lands are very distinct all the way to the end of the bore and has a nice crown as well. I've been shooting mostly Extreme Copper coated bullets and have been pushing them pretty hard at slightly over medium jacketed loads, and have experienced no copper buildup at all. I've also had no issues using HiTec coated hard cast bullets from Acme using the exact same load. So far no problems cleaning with normal procedure. Accuracy has been 1"-2" off bags at 50 yds and not much more even shooting offhand which I'm pretty happy with. Haven't tried at 100 yds yet.
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Good to hear--I'm becoming convinced I just don't know how to shoot the thing--though I manage to get MOA out of my rossi 44 mag at 100. I've also noticed the action seems to be getting a bit "catchy" as I get more rounds down the barrel. I'm using moderate loads of 12 grs of 800x driving 210 xtp's--I managed to get a few OK groups out of the first rifle using that recipe.

A 100 yd hunter this is not IMO.
 
I'm using 210 gr bullets over 17.8 gr of Accurate #9 with Win lg magnum primers. One bullet is the a Extreme copper coated truncated cone and the other is the Acme HiTec coated SWC. I do have some moderate loads using 8.2 gr of Green Dot and Win Lpp that work great in my Model 57 and I have tried them in the Henry but as I recall at 25 yds they grouped good but a substantially different POI. So I just shoot the heavier loads because I like the results. I do believe this would be a very suitable woods gun on deer in this area due to it being heavily wooded, and would feel with some practice should be reasonable out to a hundred yards.
 
Theoretically--the 41 should shoot better and flatter than the 44 out to 100 and past--but so far I haven't been able to whip up anything that comes even close to my 44 mag loads. I'm going to call Henry and see what they recommend as the most accurate ammo to use and then try it out (though I hate wasting money on factory ammo).
 
I'm using 210 gr bullets over 17.8 gr of Accurate #9 with Win lg magnum primers. One bullet is the a Extreme copper coated truncated cone and the other is the Acme HiTec coated SWC. I do have some moderate loads using 8.2 gr of Green Dot and Win Lpp that work great in my Model 57 and I have tried them in the Henry but as I recall at 25 yds they grouped good but a substantially different POI. So I just shoot the heavier loads because I like the results. I do believe this would be a very suitable woods gun on deer in this area due to it being heavily wooded, and would feel with some practice should be reasonable out to a hundred yards.
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Correct me if I'm wrong--did you not say you were sending your rifle for a gunsmith to work on?
 
I'm going to call Henry and see what they recommend as the most accurate ammo to use and then try it out (though I hate wasting money on factory ammo).
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They can't tell you what will be accurate in a particular rifle.
The only way to find out is to experiment
 
41 mag

Try Missouri Bullets cast lead.
Tell them the velocity you are shooting and they will advise what BHN cast bullet to use for best accuracy.
 
They can't tell you what will be accurate in a particular rifle.
The only way to find out is to experiment
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True--but I have to assume that while this was in development they came upon some kind of loads that would do better than 5" at 100 yds.
 
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