Helping a newbie choose their 1st gun ( handgun )

it's not often that I get the chance to help someone choose their 1st gun... last week, it came up in conversation between my boss & myself ( I'm a plant manager, he's an out of town CEO ) that I had a permit to carry ( we were discussing plant security )... he must have been eagerly awaiting our meeting today, changing th town we meet in, saying he had to stop by Cabela's... I didn't consider it unusual, as he has a couple boats, etc...

during our meeting, he brought up my CCW, & mentioned that he was thinking about buying a gun, to keep in his home, with the thought of also getting a CCW for himself... he had gotten a $100.00 off coupon, & one of his buddys had talked him into putting a S&W M&P in 40 S&W on layaway, & what did I think...

1st I asked him what his wife's position was on guns, & he said that she was in agreement that "they" needed to get a gun "while they still could"... so whatever they got, she would be practicing with it as well...

... as you can likely tell by my forum name, I'm a revolver guy, but I tried to offer unbiased comparisions of all the possible uses... the biggest constraints being his tiny wife shooting the gun, the fact that he was seriously thinking about getting a CCW, the fact that he had already gotten a range membership, & planned to take whatever he bought to the range once a week to practice with, & the fact that neither of them had any expirience...

... so after our meeting, we went & looked at the M&P... ( he had never even held one ) I explained bout loading the magazine, & then wracking the slide... he was sure his wife would never be able to, as he could barely do it... so I explained the benifits of a revolver for new shooters, & we moved down the counter a bit to the revolver section... next we pulled out a shouded hammer Air Weight S&W in 38 Special, with crimson trace grips... we discussed that one for a while, I expressed my only concern was the shorter sight radius, & the light weight frame, both as far as recoil, & as far as durability as a regular use range gun ( he doesn't want to have to buy more than one gun right now ), so I spotted a 3" barrel 357 Ruger SP-101 in stainless...we talked about shooting 38 specials in the gun regularly, with the option of +P or 357 mag...

if they would have had a Crimsion Trace grip on hand, he would have bought that as well, but he ended up walKing out with the 101, with plans to order the laser grips after they got to shoot it a bit...

so... how'd I do ??? I think they got the most versitile gun they could have considering all the variables...
 
a 3 inch barrel GP-100 is a better gun but I doubt there were any at the store, I wouldn't have talked him out of buying what he wanted unless he wanted something that wasn't quality, his choice of a S&W M&P while not my first choice, is not a bad choice at all. I'm a firm believer that someone should buy what they want, not what someone else thinks they should buy
 
I think you did OK; I bought an SP101 in .357 as my first gun after having grown up as the son of an avid hunter. I still have it, and it fits my hands as well as my wife's pretty well. If she was recoil sensitive I'd be handloading ammo for her, but for some reason my wife likes a big kick more than I do. She prefers magnums.

I support having two revolvers, myself: one mid-sized one for the range & home defense, and one small one for daily carry. I'd strongly suggest that your boss & his wife take a safety course, and explain to them that his & her tastes in handguns will change with experience. (As an example, after my wife took her handgun class & we'd done a bit of shooting, I took her shopping for her own revolver and she ended up walking out with a youth .20-ga shotgun. I'd never have guessed, and she likes it.)
 
Ding ding ding, workplace security; plans-training...

Great job! :)
To suggest a simple robust Ruger SP101 is a great idea.
In late 1993, a stainless snub 2.25" DA-only SP101(.357magnum) was my first wheel gun.
A compact striker fired MP40 pistol with a ambi safety is a good selection but for a entry level handgun shooter, that would be a bit down the road, in my humble opine.

Id add that your CEO should get some top level skill training. Go to Thunder Ranch, LFI/MassadAyoobGroup, SIG Sauer Academy, etc.
See Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme, StressFire and his non fiction book; How to Gunsafe Your Kids. Lenny Magill; www.GunVideo.com has some excellent skill training/firearm DVDs.
For detailed crime prevention/plant security operations see; www.Lasorsa.com or go to the ASIS Intl; www.ASISonline.org website.
The ASIS is an international group of corporate/industrial security experts.
Your state's AG office or homeland security agency may have classes or resources too. Mine does, ;).
 
A 3 inch SP101 is a fine choice for a first gun, and I recall gunwriter Jan Libourel saying it was a good choice for women as well. Enough weight to dampen recoil and be shootable with .38s for any beginner. Also can be carried.

So you did well.....
 
thanks guys... BTW... I didn't "really" try to talk him out of the M&P, only expained how each gun functioned, & let him make his own decisions... I think as soon as he tried to chamber a round / rack the slide in the M&P, he saw problems with his tiny wife operating the gun, or putting it in battery...

BTW #2, he had already enrolled in 2 classes, one in basic fire arms safety, & one for CCW from an indoor range close to where they live... I'm not sure of the range, or the quality of the courses, but he is of the type, that if he wants to get good with the gun, it wouldn't suprise me to see him attending one of the better national courses over the next year.. maybe we can go together :)

... I'll have to check out the links for additional training for myself... thanks
 
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The revolver, after being compared for the first time to any auto by a first time user or purchaser, is usually the better choice. Especially if a first time lady is in the picture.

I've watched many fumble around with an auto's controls experiencing frustration and confusion. That kind of exposure to the auto really makes a first time buyer opt for the revolver.

I like both revolver and auto. In the right handguns of course. But to appreciate the auto more time is required to familiarize.

A lot of folks just want the gun that goes bang without complications. I prefer the wheel gun as the defense arm for this very reason. It lacks complication.
 
I think you did fine -- if your objective note is any indication of your actual conversation, you probably did more than just fine.

My only concern is that the wife is "tiny" as you said and a longer barrel heavier revolver may be better as it would dampen the recoil more. But the constraint of a desire to CC makes that contradictory. So, without knowing more it's hard to say which direction (lower recoil or smaller more concealable) to go.

I think that getting a small female new handgun owner out of .40s&w was smart. It's a powerful round with a snappy recoil. Since you wrote:

I explained bout loading the magazine, & then wracking the slide... he was sure his wife would never be able to, as he could barely do it.

I doubt that he would be able to handle it - certainly not be comfortable with it as a first caliber. Is he either old or infirm? If just weak, then you may want to gently explain that wrist and shoulder strengthening exercises may be beneficial.
 
I think you did very well. You let him make the decision by simply pointing out how a semi-auto functioned and the disadvantages of an alloy revolver (recoil). I really think revolvers are the best choice for new shooters or those who want a house gun to bring out once a year to shoot and then stick it back in a drawer somewhere. I like the SW K-frame .38 specials with a four inch barrel for this but the three inch Ruger is also an excellent choice.
 
You did well. I favor a GP100 (either 3 or 4 inch) for a general purpose (home defense, range, woods carry) revolver, but the SP101 is a great piece for CCW with either the 3 or 2.25 inch barrel. Good job.
 
I think you did well, MWM. From what I read in this, you recognized that the gun he was going to purchase was for him (as opposed to trying to steer him to something that you'd love to have), and gave him good information to help him in making the decision. Regardless of whether he got a semiauto or a revolver, you helped him make an informed decision, and he wound up picking a good, quality gun. If he decides that it's not the gun for him, he will still go into the next transaction better educated than he was before your meeting.
 
I think you did well. It's a great opportunity and also comes with a lot of responsibility when you find yourself in that role. When you think of it all, you get the first chance to speak to gun safety, you get a chance to start someone on the path of speaking up for gun owner's rights and you have the opportunity to be an ambassador for all that we do as gun owners. That's pretty big!

A couple of things I would have done differently, and not necessarily to say that my way is the right way or even that you didn't do similar:

First thing is that I would never call it a "permit." It's a license. And I would explain why I say that and why I mean it and why it matters.

Next is that if there were opportunity to do so, I'd have him over the house and have a few handguns out of the safe to simply do a general over view of the different kinds, styles, chamberings and also to very seriously address even just the basic four rules and also to very emphatically show how the reciprocating slide of a semi-auto will try to lop of a finger or web of the shooting hand if you hold in improperly and also show how the flash gap of a revolver will blast off body parts if you let it.

The biggest reason to get him over to the house is NOT to show him the gun he should buy -- but to be able to get him the ground work long before he gets in front of a gun counter with a salesman. I think there's too much pressure to make an important decision right at the gun counter when he's got what amounts to ZERO knowledge of handguns.

And the end result of the 3-inch SP-101 -- great gun, should serve them well but I don't think it's necessarily better than some 9mm pistols available when it comes to the role of range use and practice, especially for the wife. Even with .38 Spl ammo, a smallish revolver (even a heavy one) isn't the most pleasant thing in the world to shoot and it can be damn difficult to shoot well. While there certainly is the issue of the wife being able to manipulate the slide -- the wife wasn't there to even try.

I'm also a huge proponent of a .22 rimfire as the gun to be purchased 5 minutes after the home defense capable handgun for the first time handgun owner/buyer. No matter what choice is made for the home defense handgun, a .22 rimfire semi-auto gives the new handgun owner a terrific tool for becoming a much better shooter quickly and for low dough than simply his newly purchased home defense handgun.
 
yes, both are older, lower middle 60's... I think talking to me wasn't really planned before I had told him I had my CCW... as he already had a gun on layaway ( because of the sale at Cabela's ) & already registered for the classes & had the membership at a local indoor range close to where they live, before even picking up a gun

BTW... we live about 100 miles apart, him living in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area, me in extreme sourhern MN... so he should have several places to practice, & pick up education in the metro area... & appearently has a buddy closer that originally recommended the M&P

my main goal was to listen ( which we talked for 1/2 hour to 45 minutes ) before we went into Cabela's, then to have him look at the gun he put on lay away over the phone, from his buddy's suggestion ( the M&P )... & since he already had "a" gun on lay away, he was pretty determined to take something with him, so I was limited to what Cabela's had on hand for other suggestions ( I actually hve a local toy store with a better selection of handguns on hand, than Cabela's had, but that would have been a 1/2 hour out of his way )...

BTW... I also suggested to 22 to practice with, but he's pretty sure he just wants one handgun right now, & maybe a 22 rifle later...
 
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So, here's my two things:

Having owned the gun that you talked him into, I can tell you that it's not comfortable for some people to shoot even 38s out of with the factory grip. Suggest that you tell him this and point out something like the Hogue monogrip as an alternative that will make it a much more pleasant gun for both shooters.

Also, having owned this gun and having a very small wife who didn't have a lot of hand strength/coordination, I can say that revolvers (especially the two SP101s she shot) were a particular chore for her because of the heavy and long trigger pull. This made her down right dangerous when shooting a revolver and took enough correcting that she got frustrated and did not want to learn.

If his old lady can't rack a slide, she's not going to have fun with the SP101 trigger. To help them with that as much as possible, I would suggest that you have (or help) him dry fire it around 500 times.
 
I've never shot that gun with the Crimson Trace grips, but I think that is what he wants to mount on them... they ( Cabela's ) had a 2" SP-101 with the CT grips, & to me they seemed a bit ore shooter friendly than the stock grips, but that will be up to them to decide... I have several rubber gripped revolvers of several brands... but they are not something I like when looking for a CCW gun, though I like them on my open carry woods revolvers, of generally more vicious calibers...

I spoke with him ( work related ) this morning, & he thanked me for helping him look at guns yesterday... & I mentioned dry firing the gun to help him learn trigger control, & help smooth out the trigger / break it in...
 
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Ruger's forever

You did fine excpet for one small issue. Do they have any kids or do Kids ever sleep over? The penetration power of even a 38 will go through walls. Even though a revolver over an auto is a good choice for a first gun. You need to take into concideration penertration within confined spaces and if there are other people in the home. IMO the best home defense is an 18 inch 12ga pump. I know I will get flak over that but that IMO.

Jamessnipe
 
home protection

I guess I missed the part about that he is older. I am in my late 60's and still can handle a sjhotgun. I guess all not as fortuneate ...

As long as he is safe and they both practice that is the issue.
 
I didn't "really" try to talk him out of the M&P, only expained how each gun functioned, & let him make his own decisions.

You did what you were asked to do, offer advice and Counsel then let the boss make up his own mind. Additionally the Ruger is an excellent revolver especially for a first time shooter.
 
One more vote for you did well. I wish my first gun was an sp101 instead of the crapy sigma I ended up with. The Ruger is a good gun for a beginner or a seasoned shooter, as are most well built revolvers. Hopefully they like the gun, and learn to shoot it well. That would be the best reward for your advise, I think.;)
 
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