Help with Scarring on Unspent Rounds

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ntvtxngop

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Hello everyone. I'm a longtime lurker but have an issue with a new firearm I'm hoping someone on the board can help me with. I just yesterday bought a Remington R-25 in .308. I've been eyeing one of these for a long time and finally took the plunge. I got some time this morning to take it out in the garage and play with it--clean it, stare at it, generally just love it. Anyway, as part of my lusting after this new toy, I decided to fill a magazine and cycle a couple rounds through just to see the action work. To be clear--I don't mean I squeezed any off, I just racked and extracted a couple rounds. I came across two issues as part of this. First, extracting the chambered but unspent rounds was VERY difficult. I had to brace the weapon between my feet and use both hands to pull the charging handle back. The other issue is, when I finally got the round out, I noticed that there was scarring on the bullet. There were several gouges as well as a few spiraling scratch marks that ran from the tip of the bullet down to where the bullet meets the brass. Does anyone know what might be the cause of either of these two issues? Just in case you're wondering, this was done AFTER I thoroughly cleaned and oiled the weapon and I did it using TulAmmo 150 Grain FMJ. This stuff: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM7340-1.html
 
First of all, dummy rounds are a lot safer to use than live ammo. If you have some friends who reload .308, they can make some up for you.

They won't last forever, as semi-auto actions are "rough" on cases, even when just cycling them through the action. My dummy rounds usually get chewed up at the rims, but magazine scratches the length of the case occur as well.

Back to your questions. I'm going to guess that the cartridge enters the chamber at an angle, and the scratch marks on the bullets occur during feeding.

If you really want to diagnose the second problem, difficult extraction, I'd again find someone who reloads and have them pull a few bullets and make dummy rounds from your TulAmmo. Make sure they deprime them, too.

Then you can try dropping a round into the chamber to see how well it fits. It should not be a tight fit for a semi-auto. You don't want anything decelerating that bolt before the bolt head rotates to the locked position.

If it doesn't drop in easily, you have some kind of dimensional problems with using that ammo in that rifle.

Another idea - get another box of .308 ammo from someone like Remington of Winchester and take the rifle to a range. With the muzzle pointed safely downrange, repeat your ammo cycling experiment. If that ammo works OK, then your rifle doesn't like polymer coated steel.

Others may have additional suggestions, but that's what I came up with... :)
 
Thanks!

That's very good advice. Message received on the dummy rounds. FYI I'm having the same issues with high quality Hornady rounds. Thoughts?
 
I think if you're concerned you should ask a gunsmith to check the headspace.

Take a close look at the feed path for burrs or roughness.
 
Well, that helps rule out the ammo.

+1 to having a gunsmith check headspace. It isn't common, but I suppose you could have a short chamber.

Again, with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, if the cartridges chamber completely with muzzle down & fall back out when it is tipped up (with bolt locked back), it isn't chamber diameters.

Short chamber = insufficient distance from bolt face to datum (a line on the case shoulder), and this can definitely cause extraction difficulties.

Also can be a contributing factor to slamfires, so ammo that won't chamber easily is definitely something to check out before proceeding further.
 
get a good light or in a bright work area and verify the chamber and bore are clear with no errant metal or burrs. Once you verify this, shoot the rifle about 250-500 times cleaning once in awhile. I am not a fan of that ammo you posted I would use some good surplus or decent 308 brass ammo. Then go back out to the garage and cycle some rounds to see if there are any marks. These things take some time to break-in. Feed ramps get smoother, bolt cycles smoother, that kind of thing. You can also manually polish feedramps, there are videos online to show you how, but this will not fix a real feeding problem, only make a decent rifle a little better.

If you are having actual function problems send it back. Make sure you don't void your warranty with that ammo.
 
Autoloaders are very hard on brass.

Nature of the beast.

Wait till you fire some and look at the brass then:eek: Ripped rims, bashed in case mouths:eek:
 
ARs like lots of lube when new. The bolt carrier group should be drippy wet and spit lube when you fire the first couple rounds. Also put a dab of grease on the back of each bolt lug and in the cam pin cut of the bolt carrier. After you run a hundred rounds through it, you'll find it chambers and extracts easier. At that point, you can reduce the amount of lube.

Scratches on the cartridges come from the sharp edges of metal magazine feed lips and the sharp edges on the back of the barrel extension. A fine-toothed jeweler's file or crocus cloth can be used to break the sharp edges.
 
Most of what you described is normal for a AR-10 which is pretty much what the Remington R-25 is.

I suspect this

First, extracting the chambered but unspent rounds was VERY difficult. I had to brace the weapon between my feet and use both hands to pull the charging handle back.
Click to expand...

May be from this

I did it using TulAmmo 150 Grain FMJ.
Click to expand...

TulAmmo is absolute garbage it is IMO the worst of the worst a friend of mine and I bought some on the way to the range one day to try it out in our AR-15s and both our ARs had the casings get stuck in the chamber after the very first shot. We broke two cleaning rods getting the casings out. I wouldn't try it again, but my friend wanted to try it again and on the third round same thing happened. Do yourself a favor and buy some brass cased ammo. If you can afford a R-25 you should be able to afford some brass ammo. Please don't shoot that crap and then judge the rifle by it when you have problems with it.
 
Scratches on the brass are okay. Gouges and scratches on the bullet are not. At least not if you expect to hit anything past 50-75 yards.

Is the magazine fully seated?
 
Yes the mag is fully seated. Keep in mind I haven't even fired the weapon yet. I'm going to put some rounds through it to break it in a little and hope these issues clear up. Coincidentally, I have a S&W M&P15 and the second time I took it to the range I was shooting Wolf ammo and a round got stuck in the chamber. I should have learned my lesson with crappy steel cased Russian ammo.
 
As suggested, try some decent ammo and see if you have the same problem. Clean the chamber thoroughly as there could be traces of metal in the chamber. If you still have problems, there could be some milling marks in the chamber. That depends on how old the chamber reamer was they used. You can polish the chamber with some 400 grit emery cloth, an appropriately sized dowel and a drill, but if you're taking it to a gunsmith, you can ask him to check out the chamber and polish it if necessary. Only takes a few minutes and shouldn't cost too much.
 
Not sure about gettig stuck but i know the scratches.

If im not mistaken the R-25 is like an ar-15 when it comes to bolt and chamber.

When you extract a live cartridge the bullet drags against the locking lugs. Try this. Chamber a round and slowly extract it, as soon as you can stick your finger in and hold the bullet in and pull the bolt all the way back then let go and let it eject the cartridge.

That should stop the scratches
 
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