Help with cartridge selection for elk, white tail and moose..

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WilsonCQB

Inactive
Question:
It is my understanding that it takes at least 900ft lbs of energy to make a clean kill on a white tail deer.
What is the minimum amount of energy for a clean kill on an elk, or a moose (given the obvious,,,a good shot)?

I was trying to decide on my next rifle, Browning BAR with Boss in either 7mm rem magnum or 30.06sprg.

I'm having a heck of a time deciding.

My thoughts are; 1) is the 7mm too much round for deer hunting in MN (where shots are almost always 125yds or under) or is the 30.06 round not a good enough elk or moose round if I should venture out to Colorado or Wyoming for the longer 200-300 yard shots? I have never hunted out west before so I'm not even sure if the norm is over 300 yards or under 200 yards or ?????
Any help would be much appreciated on this topic.

Which one would you guys decide on and why?
 
First, there is no such thing as over-kill.

There is such a thing as using too light or frangible a bullet. These'll likely blow up, not give enough penetration, yada. You can always pick a bit heavier bullet, or one of the premiums that'll give you what you want.

A lot of states use the "1,000 ft lb min at 100 yards" cut-off for big game. But I don't see how anything that's good for whitetails is anywhere good for elk. My .243 w/87 gr deer bullets'll do that, but it sure isn't any elk gun.

I've seen some gun rags saying 1700 ft lbs minimum for elk. I think that's all hooey.

Mimum in CO for a handgun is 550 ft lbs at 50 yards & plenty do elk with that.

Our elk stand-by has been the .30-6 with Sierra's 180 GameKings. Kills 'em all day long. Last few years, I switched to the "lowly" .308 & a short barrel - 165s at a measely 2400 fps. 3 for 3 so far & I've every expectation I'll do another couple this year.

Within 300 yards, 7mm, '30-06 - doesn't matter. There's so many calibers to choose that'll do it quite well.
 
I would go with the 7STW or the .06. You can load either up or down depending on the game.
Two of the guys in our party last year used basic .06s with 180 Nosler Partitions, the mulies couldn't tell the difference between that, a .300 Weatherby or the 7STW.
Gotta go with Labgrade on this one.
 
The rounds have used in the past for deer sized game are the Winchester 150gr Noseler partition golds which work wonderfully. If I do ever go elk hunting (and if it's with an .06) it'll be equipped with the 180gr Nosler partition golds.

What is the "typical" (if there is such a thing) distance hunters take elk and moose out west?
 
Wilson,

Lots of shooting at elk at 400 yards. Not hitting, mind you, but shooting. :( Places you can see elk easily 2 miles away & sadly, there's some who think if they can see 'em, they can kill 'em with their Wunderifle.

I've taken an elk or two past 200, but hunt the dark timber these days - 40 yards is a ways off lately. ;)
 
I don't figure it takes exceptional skill in the lower 48 states to have my .30-'06 attitude: "If it's inside of 300 yards, I own it."

I'd use pretty much any old 150-grain bullet on whitetail, and premium 180s on elk and moose.

:), Art
 
Thanks Art!

As I explained to labgrade, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't undergunning myself if I ever had the chance to go to the western states to hunt elk or moose.

I just wanted to ensure that I wasn't going to be laughed at if I took an 06 with me instead of a 7mm or 300WSM or something of that sort.

It will be bad enough if I get heckled by some guys when they see me with a Browning BAR auto loader VS a bolt action gun.

Again, thanks.
 
The 30-06 is a great elk gun, as is the 7 mag. I would shoot only 180 and heavier in the 06, and 160 and heavier in the 7. I have shot several elk with the 7mag, and seen a dozen or more shot with the 06. I can't tell the difference and neither can the elk. I would take both moose hunting in a heartbeat, and both are great whitetail guns.

I would prefer a 338 for moose and it is awesome on elk as well.

My theory for selecting hunting guns is to shoot the biggest bullet as fast as you can get it as long as you can shoot it well. For some people the 06 is too much and for others the 340 weatherby is just great. Shoot the biggest YOU can shoot well IMO.
 
Agree with Art et al.
06...150ish for most things. premium 180s for big stuff.

Learn your and your guns capabilities. Take shots you know you can make.

Don't practice from bench. Do that from offhand, sitting, kneeling and prone. And leanin against things.

Sam
 
Be careful if you're shooting a semi-auto. A lot of the high end rounds aren't ment to be used in them. I got a few boxes of Federal Premium High Energy 180 grain Nosler Partitions and they warn not to use it in a semi auto. They pack a lot more punch and it may screw up your rifle.
 
Personally I would say either is okay for Deer or Elk. I use the 7mm on eastern whitetails & it works great. Now for Moose I would feel undergunned. I would use a 30cal mag at a min for moose. My guide in Canada used a BAR in 338 win mag for Moose & Bear.
 
Fuzzy, you have a good point, but I'd bet it would apply to a Garand more than to the Browning.

My other thought on this is that doing only enough shooting to sight in, and then only those few shots one would take on game, wouldn't be harmful.

Long haul? Hundreds of rounds? Quite possibly.

I'd ask Browning, though...

Art
 
Go with the .30-06. Do you know what 7MM actually means? It's an ancient Chinese proverb derived from the word "Se'me me'" which literally translates to
"marketing scam pushed by gun writers to sell another unneeded cartridge which can not do anything a 30-06 can not already do."
:) :rolleyes:

There have been a whole lot o Moose and Elk killed with a .30-06 and I've killed more than a couple of them myself with the ole 06. Now if I was going to be hunting exclusivley In AK and Canada for Moose and bear I'd consider a larger caliber such as the .338 or a .375. But for your purposes the 06 fits the bill quite nicely.

Just my humble $.02
 
Ok Ok there is one thing the 7MM does do better, it costs more for a box of ammo and wounds better. So it does have some bright spots.:p

WilsonCQB,
On a serious note the average shot out west is under 200 yards My furthest ever Elk kill was at over 400 yds my closest was at about 15 feet guiding and hunting through the years I'd have to say the majority of Mule deer and Elk kills Ive done and seen have been 200 yds and closer. Gun writers like to talk about "long distance rifles for western hunting" that's to sell you on a new magnum.
 
I don't subscribe to the minimum ft-lbs of energy theory to effectively take any big game animal. Too many successful hunters using chamberings like the lowly 30-30 to kill Elk and Moose year after year. However, Since I have been privileged to have many years of hunting experience, I will make a comment. The 30-06 is very fine medicine for moose, and quite adequate for elk. I have shot a lot of moose and about three dozen Elk, and Moose are easier to kill than are elk. The advice from another poster about premium bullets for the bigger animals is sound. For deer, any decent bullet will get the job done. Personally, I shoot premiums at all animals, regardless. but you may see it differently for light boned animals. The 7mm mag is also fine for the purposes stated, 160+ for moose and Elk, Partitions are good, as are Barnes-X, Failsafes, A-Frames, Sciroccos, etc. Regards, Eagleye2 :)
 
Welcome to TFL, eagleye.

Can't argue with anything you've said.

I've shot quite a few ~180 gr .30 cal cast bullets & even at a lowly 1500 fps, am amazed at the penetrative qualities these things give.

Proper hunting skill-sets & a .30 cal Barnes at 2000 fps, I'd think one could easily take most any big game critter on the continent. (& the only reason I'd choose the Barnes is that they spec the bullet to expand at 1600 fps - no others I know do that per specs)

Granted, I'd rather have something a bit faster for the longer shots if need be, and I'd rather use something beefier for the big bears. But hell, folks kill Alaskan Browns with bows! So much for foot punds, no?
 
Back around 60 years ago, my grandfather killed his first and only buck. Not a big buck, but it was a nice little "good-eatin' deer".

He saw it not far from the house, near the cows in a small, five-acre trap. He got his rifle and walked in line toward the deer, to his plow horse. He slowly guided the horse closer to the deer, using it as a screen. At what he thought was "good enough", he laid the rifle over the horse's back and shot the deer in the heart. Dead deer.

He used a .22 Short.

:), Art
 
The 7mm will generally shoot just a bit flatter and just a bit faster, but the '06 can use heavier bullets that make a larger hole. You can see this in the ballistic tables . . . but I honestly don't see that the best big game 7mm Rem. Mag loads will, in the field, do anything that the best .30/06 loads won't. Either is fine for elk-size game.

Personally, as far as use on big game is concerned, given the best ammo, I think you'd have a hard time in the field trying to distinguish between any of the common cartridges in the .270/.280/7mm/.308/.300 range.

As far as needing 900 ft. lbs to cleanly take a deer . . . I don't agree with that. I've succesfully taken deer with a .357 handgun, and people (archers) have been taking deer for thousands of years with what amounts to a sharpened stick. ;)
 
30-06 is never a bad choice for Non-Dangerous Game animals.

Still a 30-06 will still toast anything 600 Pounds or under! Including Leopards.
 
WilsonCQB: You said "I just wanted to ensure that I wasn't going to be laughed at if I took an 06 with me instead of a 7mm or 300WSM or something of that sort.
It will be bad enough if I get heckled by some guys when they see me with a Browning BAR auto loader VS a bolt action gun."

You will probably get some looks for bringing a semi. The guide will probably be more worried about the action than the caliber (he might think...a spray and pray shooter). On the other hand if you can keep your shots on a paper plate out to 200 or so yards, from field positions, you are probably doing better than most that shoot at 400 yard targets.

For Elk IMHO Nosler partitions or Swift Aframes would be the way to go with 160's in the 7 and 180's in the '06. For Moose I would probably use X bullets or Failsafes.
 
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