Help with bullet ID.

G

GTNMUDY

New member
Was at a gun show and came across a pill box full on .224 bullets.

The price was good so I bought them.

When i got home i looked at them closer and discoverd that they were 60 gr, FMJ but much longer that other bullets I have reloaded.

The bullet has a small compartment at the base that I assume would be for tracer mix.

I am assuming that these would be a good bullet for accuracy due to the length, kinda like the 6.5 bullet.

Any info would help..
 

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That's a military M856 Tracer bullet but it has the cup closure missing from the base of the bullet. Plus the orange paint is gone from the tip. These very long bullets seat deeply into the case and take up lots of volume. You have to reduce powder charges for them. If you've shot some 62 FMJ's then reduce your powder charges for 62 FMJ by about 1 1/2 grains. Don't know if the tracer will light with the cup closure missing but they might. Depends on whether the tracer compound has deteriorated.
 
Thanks for the info.

OK for what your saying is it is still a tracer (live) bullet without something in the cup at the base. I thought maybe that cup area was where the tracer material would go.

What your saying is that area is used for something like a fuse for the tracer material.

If i use these I was going to use H4198 at about 20 gr. I think there will be enough space in the case to seat it.
 
From the deep recess of cup, I can't tell if they are missing the igniter or the tracer mix or both. They may just have the nose filler in them. Can't say. They may also be fully active, but a design variation. since their weight matches the European tracer weight range. Don't shoot them where there is dry grass or other potential fire hazard, just in case.

Those bullets are designed to have the same ballistic coefficient (BC) as the M855 projectile, despite their extra length. Aerodynamic shape depends on the nose ogive radius and the boattail shape. Extra bearing surface (side) length does nothing to increase the BC unless it is filled or solid to increase mass with it.

Tracers are so long for their weight that they need the fast 7" military barrel twist rate to stabilize them. Indeed, the tracer for this round is why the military adopted that fast twist. If you shoot these in a slower twist they will likely tumble and keyhole and be terribly inaccurate.

Because of the length of that bullet, it takes up so much powder space I would use a starting load of 17 grains of IMR4198 and then work up toward 18.7 grains. QuickLOAD has the tracer in its database, and getting a relative match for it to pressures for other bullets in Hodgdon's load data using IMR4198 in 223 suggests that charge weight range would be about right. This is assuming you have the 7" twist to stabilize them with. If not, you might want to try to trade them to someone who does.
 
My Colt has a 1/9 twist and from what I have read this would be ok for the bullet weight, but you may be right on the length.

What the heck, I'll load some and take them to the range.

Can't hurt, and I'll easily see if they keyhole on the paper.

I was thinking about the load and 17gr is a good place to start
 
Just stumped with this one. It does look like there is a ring at the base in there wich may be a gas check or foil layer,
 
Well I loaded 10 rounds and took them to the range.

4 things happened.

1. The first 2 I tried in the mag jammed into the chamber and had a hell of a time getting it out. These were 2 of my reloads. I use a full case resizing die and I matched the OBL to some factory tracers I bought at a swap meet. After I cleared the first 2 the rest shot off just fine.

2. At 100 yds they did not appear to keyhole with my 1/9 twist barrel.

3. The accuracy sucked. My group was 7 inches at 100 yds.

4. They are not tracers, or at least they did not light up before it hit 100 yds.

Won't be wasting any time and powder on these.
 
Ok guys,

You did so great ID'n the bullets let's try this one.

At the range and was walking out to the targets and looking around for 223 brass I found this thing, in fact 3 of them.

Brought it home looked through all my reloading books and couldn't ID it.

It is military has LC head stamp and pinned primer.

Looks like some type of blank round.
 

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Your right, it is a 308. I completely looked over the 308 data.

Would it be used for launching gernades say off a M1A?

I can't imagine someone launching something at the range. :eek:
 
"...used for something like a fuse for the tracer material..." Nope. The trace element goes in that wee hole. Isn't a big deal that it's not there. You've weighed 'em at 60 grains. Use 60 grain data.
However, 20 grains of H4189 is the max load for a 60 grain bullet. You need to work up the load, not just pick one. Especially a max load.
 
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