Help with an antique gun-Markings-Bohler-Blitz Stahl

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boylen33

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Help with an antique gun-Markings-Bohler-Blitz Stahl-UPDATED-marking pics added

Hi guys,
Hoping you can offer me some insight as to what exactly this gun is and perhaps a guesstimate on value. All I know about it are the markings I could locate on the gun. I have included several pictures that show the etchings and markings on the gun. Here are links to those pics:

Entire Gun:
guna.jpg


Etchings/Carvings:
gunc.jpg


More Etchings/Carvings:
gunb.jpg


Markings 1:
gund.jpg


Markings 2:
gune.jpg
 
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You really needed to copy those marks off for us. is it a rifle, or a shotgun? are the marks in english, or foreign language?

Here is what I can observe. it looks very strongly european. those are roe deer, unless I'm mistaken. The sling attached to the barrels is a uniquely european thing.

The very long sideplates and the short, rounded hammer are unusuall. It appears to have rifle sights.

The fit of those side plates is unbelievable. the engraving is quite nice; the checkering on the action lever and the engraved screw head are very nice touches. the checkering is nice.

I'm going to take a guess at Germany or balkan area, turn of the century, smokeless, probably a rimmed 8 mm cartridge, and that was a fine piece in its time. It was used, but cared for, and owned by real wealth and influence. This was something that went out on the hunt when the burgomeister went to deer camp. it wasnt' drug out by the guy who cut firewood and poached deer for a living.

I'd love to see better pictures, and I'm really looking forward to the experts weiging in.
 
Markings

The markings on the gun barrel reads:

Bohler-Blitz Stahl

The markings underneath the detachable barrel stock read what appears to be the same thing, with 1460 above it.

The gun is at my parents house and I took these pics with my phone earlier, so the quality isn't the best. I will take some better pics with a good camera tomorrow.

Here are a couple more pics:

k1.jpg


k3.jpg


k2.jpg
 
Bohler is a steel company, now www.Bohler-Edelstahl.com , Blitz Stahl would be their trade name for the barrel steel.
There were many small gunmaking operations in Germany and Austria in the past so more information will be needed to determine the maker.
Bore and chamber dimensions would be helpful and any other markings .
 
It's definitely German (Bohler and Krupp were the two biggest suppliers of steel for German gunmakers), but trying to figure out who exactly made it is going to require more information. Have you looked along the entire length of the rib (some markings are very light and hard to read, especially on an engraved rib)? It's a back-action side-hammer, which was last popular at the end of the 1800s, but the proofs on the bottom of the barrel will be a better clue as to when it was made. Your first step should be to break the rifle down into its 3 main parts (forearm, receiver and barrel) and take a very close look at every single one of them for any names or addresses, and take CLEAR pictures of any stamps.
HTH.
 
A German made gun will have proof marks under the barrel. Take off the forearm, if you open the gun after that is will come apart and you can take pictures of the marks. There should be a number like 7.8 or 9.1 to indicate the caliber, so it's diameter at the lands and will not match the nominal (groove) caliber like 8 and 9.3.
 
Big thanks for the info and guidance guys! I will break the gun down this afternoon and inspect it more closely. I will also take better pictures. Thanks again!
 
Hey again guys!

I took the gun apart and took some pictures of all the markings I could find. Here are some pics:

These are the markings on the underneath of the (forearm?) when I took the barrel off:
makersmarksposs2.jpg


This is a marking off the underneath of the barrel:
markunderneathbarrelstock.jpg


This is a marking located on the thing (sorry for lack of terminology) attached to underneath of barrel. It reads "74":
74onthingonbarrel.jpg


Marking on underneath of removed barrel stock. Reads: 1460:
1460underneathofbarrelstock.jpg


Initials carved into underneath of removed barrel stock. Reads CAS
initialscarvedintounderneathofbarrellstock.jpg


Carve into stock. Appears to read "Ozzng"
cavedintostock.jpg
 
The NPF mark is distinctive, Austria with a Ferlach proof.
The rest of the marks are not described in the one book I have with a chapter of Austrian proof marks, but my first read would be:
8.9 => 9mm caliber, proofed with a 13.25 g (204 gr) bullet
proof done Jul 1929 with 30% overload
 
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Still really hard to say. It depends on what factory. I don't think that was a ground up build. that's a beautiful, elegant piece, with serious condition problems, and what will make or break it is provenance and history. Who owned it, who made it, rarity, so forth. Even as a wall hanger, I'm willing to bet that you could probably get at least $1,000.
 
One of the barrel marks appears to be "Öster", the abbreviation for Österreich, or Austria. That, plus the Ferlach proof mark pretty well makes the gun of Austrian, not German, manufacture.

Jim
 
In regards to value, from the pictures you showed it's not in particularly great condition. While it has a Ferlach proof mark, it does have no Ferlach maker's mark (and as Ferlach was the center of Austrian gun making, every Ferlach maker would have marked it clearly). So you have a nice stalking rifle of unknown Austrian manufacture, most likely in an obsolete caliber if the 8.9 mark indicates it (you should make a chamber cast), made between the wars and "liberated" by some GI after the war. Typically they are advertised (but not sold) for a $1,000 - $1,500 on gunbroker.
If I see it at a gun show with a $750 price I might take a close look at it for the craftsmanship, but not more. BTW in German these guns are known as Ischl Stutzen, after the Austrian Emporer Franz Joseph's favorite vacation (and hunting) town.
 
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Perhaps there is a maker's mark on the gun that I am missing. I will have to go back and inspect it more closely. Where should I look in particular?
 
Bohler-Blitz Stahl

I have just come into posession of a double barreled shotgun that looks almost exactly like boylen33's with all of the other marks he shows in his pictures. I will try to submit some pictures. The gun is in very good condition. Would you be able to direct me to a dealer somewhere in the area I live so I can take both the Bohler-Blitz Stahl and also a Browning over/under?
 

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