Ok, it's time for my first long gun. I'm either gonna get a Bushmaster AR-15 "shorty" carbine, or a Scattergun 870 12 gauge. One day, I'll have both, but for now, can only afford one. They both cost roughly the same, and my intended purpose is just to have fun shooting them, with their availability as home defense weapons. Help???!!!??? Can't decide!!!
Help! What to get next?
- Thread starter shamster
- Start date
It's tough isn't it? I have both the AR carbine and a dedicated combat shotgun- but I aquired the shotgun first.
Recommendation: Depending on how "handy" you are with gunsmithing, you can "build" a Scattergun Tech type Rem 870 for much less than the current ticket.
Find a used 870- preferably a 12 gauge Special Purpose Magnum, Express Magnum, or Police Magnum (less likely). I specify magnum so it will eat whatever shell you happen to get your hands on... I recently saw one for $200!!
Get the Brownells catalog. Use this as your resource. Almost everything can be found elsewhere for less money. Bare necessities: The peep sights, FlexiTab (should be present in a newer used gun), the high visability shell follower with raised nub, and a really good recoil pad. You can bolt on the other goodies as you see fit afterwards. You should be able to get away with a practical shotgun for well under $500 this way. The remaining $300 will get you a lot of buckshot...
Recommendation: Depending on how "handy" you are with gunsmithing, you can "build" a Scattergun Tech type Rem 870 for much less than the current ticket.
Find a used 870- preferably a 12 gauge Special Purpose Magnum, Express Magnum, or Police Magnum (less likely). I specify magnum so it will eat whatever shell you happen to get your hands on... I recently saw one for $200!!
Get the Brownells catalog. Use this as your resource. Almost everything can be found elsewhere for less money. Bare necessities: The peep sights, FlexiTab (should be present in a newer used gun), the high visability shell follower with raised nub, and a really good recoil pad. You can bolt on the other goodies as you see fit afterwards. You should be able to get away with a practical shotgun for well under $500 this way. The remaining $300 will get you a lot of buckshot...
oberkommando
New member
Shotgun is more practicle for home, I did buy one first, and them a few more later. I like the work Hans Vang does with 870's or Benelli M1's, yeah get the 3" version, but if buying used check chamber and receiver becase it doesn't always say mag if it is 3" I have field express with mag receiver and it says nothing of the sort, I went to vang to get it modified and he looked at it for a couple seconds and said it was already 3".
If you can afford Benelli go for it, its awesome and a lot cheaper than a few years ago but beware the recoil op system likes to give its owner bittersweet kisses while cycling at high speed, lean into it till it hurts and the gun will love you. I shoot mostly 3"mag so if you use lighter stuff it might play in a friendlier manner. Good luck, get em while you can.
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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
If you can afford Benelli go for it, its awesome and a lot cheaper than a few years ago but beware the recoil op system likes to give its owner bittersweet kisses while cycling at high speed, lean into it till it hurts and the gun will love you. I shoot mostly 3"mag so if you use lighter stuff it might play in a friendlier manner. Good luck, get em while you can.
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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
As for building one's own 870, done it,and I'm tool challenged.
The last one started life as a tower weapon for the Md Pen.When they closed the Pen(First used as a prison in the Administration of T Jefferson!), a gun shop I use recieved many very used 879s. Some were stripped for parts,and the receivers refurbished,converted to 3 inch and so on. I bought one for nostalgic reasons(retired from Md DOC) and built a not pretty but excellent bird gun. I had a 21 inch tubed bbl left over from another 870 that had an extended forcing cone.The matte finish on that vent rib bbl matched up OK with the Parkerized receiver.
The shop threw in one of the most ugly, nasty,beat up misused pieces of walnut ever to be seen. After a little work and some flat black spray paint, it didn't look so bad. Some judicious work with aluminum foil gave me stock measurements with a little cast off and less drop than standard.
Forearm was the original corncob type from my first 870,bought by Pop around 56. A trigger group with an acceptable slap trigger was $35. The mag spring from that 870 was also used, it's only 40 some years old and works fine(G). I did get a steel follower, don't trust the plastic and newer stuff from DOC experience.
The short bbl moved balance a little far back so I hogged out about 3 oz of wood from that ugly stock under the pad where it wouldn't show. This balances between the hands nicely and seem to swing like a lighter weapon. Weight is on the light side, maybeso 6lbs,10 oz.
Oh,yes, it seemed a little slow after hogging out that wood,so I took the mag cap and belt sanded it down from a domed shape to flat and installed a swivel stud.This took another oz off the front and sweetened the swing. While it's not the prettiest shotgun on the clays range, I do OK with it.
And, while this was a bird gun rather than a defense piece, the process is the same. For a HD 870, I'd farm out mounting a peep and something better than a alap trigger, but the rest would pretty much work at the old kitchen table.
And while I like rust resistant stuff myself, there's a fair to middlin number of weapons here at Casa McC that were made in the 40s and 50s, been used close to the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic frequently and are rust free.
Hope this answers all questions, if not sing out.The only dumb questions are those that don't get asked....
The last one started life as a tower weapon for the Md Pen.When they closed the Pen(First used as a prison in the Administration of T Jefferson!), a gun shop I use recieved many very used 879s. Some were stripped for parts,and the receivers refurbished,converted to 3 inch and so on. I bought one for nostalgic reasons(retired from Md DOC) and built a not pretty but excellent bird gun. I had a 21 inch tubed bbl left over from another 870 that had an extended forcing cone.The matte finish on that vent rib bbl matched up OK with the Parkerized receiver.
The shop threw in one of the most ugly, nasty,beat up misused pieces of walnut ever to be seen. After a little work and some flat black spray paint, it didn't look so bad. Some judicious work with aluminum foil gave me stock measurements with a little cast off and less drop than standard.
Forearm was the original corncob type from my first 870,bought by Pop around 56. A trigger group with an acceptable slap trigger was $35. The mag spring from that 870 was also used, it's only 40 some years old and works fine(G). I did get a steel follower, don't trust the plastic and newer stuff from DOC experience.
The short bbl moved balance a little far back so I hogged out about 3 oz of wood from that ugly stock under the pad where it wouldn't show. This balances between the hands nicely and seem to swing like a lighter weapon. Weight is on the light side, maybeso 6lbs,10 oz.
Oh,yes, it seemed a little slow after hogging out that wood,so I took the mag cap and belt sanded it down from a domed shape to flat and installed a swivel stud.This took another oz off the front and sweetened the swing. While it's not the prettiest shotgun on the clays range, I do OK with it.
And, while this was a bird gun rather than a defense piece, the process is the same. For a HD 870, I'd farm out mounting a peep and something better than a alap trigger, but the rest would pretty much work at the old kitchen table.
And while I like rust resistant stuff myself, there's a fair to middlin number of weapons here at Casa McC that were made in the 40s and 50s, been used close to the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic frequently and are rust free.
Hope this answers all questions, if not sing out.The only dumb questions are those that don't get asked....
No debate in my eyes...get the Shorty. They are going to start dissapearing soon anyway.
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Ban the bans.
http://members.xoom.com/urbansniper/home.html
__________________________________________
Ban the bans.
http://members.xoom.com/urbansniper/home.html
Although I wouldn't recommend it as a home defense gun, I'd still suggest getting the Bushmaster Shorty first. Get one while you still can. The prices for ARs and new GI pre-ban mags are steadily rising but at least you can still buy them for the time being. ARs are relatively cheap to feed and very enjoyable to shoot.
As for the shotgun,the Scattergun Technologies models are pricey for a pumpgun. As others have said, you may want to look into building up a basic 870 yourself. But when you're looking for a shotgun you may want to check out the Benelli M1 (and Beretta 1201). Although some say the Benelli recoil is harsh I've found it to be pretty mild. I can shoot slugs all day long but YMMV. With the 870, on the other hand, I find that extended shooting sessions with slugs can be somewhat punishing.
As for the shotgun,the Scattergun Technologies models are pricey for a pumpgun. As others have said, you may want to look into building up a basic 870 yourself. But when you're looking for a shotgun you may want to check out the Benelli M1 (and Beretta 1201). Although some say the Benelli recoil is harsh I've found it to be pretty mild. I can shoot slugs all day long but YMMV. With the 870, on the other hand, I find that extended shooting sessions with slugs can be somewhat punishing.
You're comparing apples to oranges, AR and shotguns have different missions and capabilities.
I borrowed an AR 15 some years back for some 3 gun LEO competition from a good friend. When I talked to him a month or so ago, he hadn't fired it since. He's a gunsmith,BTW and has plenty of toys.
Buy the AR if you wish,after all it's still America(barely). But IMO the 870 will get more use,and pretty soon we can expect Reno and Clinton to start talking about all the crime being committed with pump shotguns...
I borrowed an AR 15 some years back for some 3 gun LEO competition from a good friend. When I talked to him a month or so ago, he hadn't fired it since. He's a gunsmith,BTW and has plenty of toys.
Buy the AR if you wish,after all it's still America(barely). But IMO the 870 will get more use,and pretty soon we can expect Reno and Clinton to start talking about all the crime being committed with pump shotguns...
Cpt. John Park
New member
Dear Shammy,
I say AR-15. I enjoyed my M-16 in the army---light, little recoil, accurate.
Recently I bought a Bushmaster shorty with the AK muzzle break. With the short barrel, it is so small and light. It is a full 6" shorter than my Mossberg with the 18.5" barrel.
I say use your handgun for home defense, and get your rifle now. They are expensive, but one more piece of legislation, and they could be $3000 overnight, with no new ones available.
Pump shotguns will not be targeted until after "assault" rifles are "out of the way."
ARs are so easy to shoot accurately, even folks new to them. That is one of the best features in the military application.
AR!!!
JP
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Nehemiah 4:18 " ... and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked."
I say AR-15. I enjoyed my M-16 in the army---light, little recoil, accurate.
Recently I bought a Bushmaster shorty with the AK muzzle break. With the short barrel, it is so small and light. It is a full 6" shorter than my Mossberg with the 18.5" barrel.
I say use your handgun for home defense, and get your rifle now. They are expensive, but one more piece of legislation, and they could be $3000 overnight, with no new ones available.
Pump shotguns will not be targeted until after "assault" rifles are "out of the way."
ARs are so easy to shoot accurately, even folks new to them. That is one of the best features in the military application.
AR!!!
JP
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Nehemiah 4:18 " ... and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked."
Jeff Thomas
New member
The AR advice is good, all around. Buy the endangered 'species' first.
If you want to get an inexpensive 870, there is one for sale right here on TFL: http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=42384
Good luck. Regards from AZ
If you want to get an inexpensive 870, there is one for sale right here on TFL: http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=42384
Good luck. Regards from AZ
oberkommando
New member
If you want rare you should forget that ar-15 and buy FAL, Hk 91, or M14 type rifle, they are hard to find now.
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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.
A RAND
------------------
The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.
A RAND