Help us pick a pistol, for LEO.

M

Mike38

New member
My Son-In-Law is going through the steps to become a Law Enforcement Officer. He has passed the physical and written exams and is having his second interview next week at a local PD. He's not much of a "shooter" he hunts, targets shoots a little, but only owns a .22LR revolver. So he asked me about what to carry when / if he becomes employed as a LEO. My first suggestion was to ask if the PD has a list of suggested weapons and go from there. This he will do. He said he wants something that would be draw and ready, no safeties to have to remember in the heat of battle. First thing that came to my mind was Glock. But, I'm really not a fan of Glock pistols, for reasons that may be my problem.

So I Googled "List of Safe Action pistols" and all I got was Glock, Glock, and more Glock. I'm probably not searching using the proper terms, as I can't seem to find much. I'd like to see a web site with images, descriptions and specs of say 10 pistols, high capacity, with safe action type trigger, and maybe a short review, to compare and help make a decision. Is there such a web site out there?

Also, he brought up caliber. My first suggestion was 9mm. Second .45acp. He thinks the 9mm is too wimpy and the .45acp is too much, then mentioned the .40. I'm going to have a hard time explaining to him that the .45acp is mild as compared to the .40 and a 9mm really isn't wimpy at all, and would give him quicker follow up shots. Looks like I'll have to take him to the range and let him shoot my 9mm and .45acp, then rent a .40 and let him decide.

Anyhow, if there is a web site out there that would give reviews and side-by-side comparisons of "safe action" pistols geared towards LEOs, please share with me. Thank you.
 
The first question I would ask is does he want striker fired DAO Glock type trigger where every single pull is the same or would he consider a DA/SA gun like a P series Sig?

Both of those meet the criteria of: He said he wants something that would be draw and ready, no safeties to have to remember in the heat of battle.

In the end for most departments these days will issue him a weapon or require that he pick a weapon from an approved list. Most officers have very little choice in what they carry. Only very small local departments allow officers to "choose" their duty weapon.

So in the end I think at this point it is more about learning trigger control and familiarizing him with duty sized pistols. If he is not an experienced handgun shooter I would recommend getting him some quality training outside the department/academy. Too many departments are teach to the lowest common denominator, making it so everyone can qualify, vs teaching real marksmanship and life saving tactical skills. IMHO YMMV
 
Last edited:
Not sure what "safe action" means (isn't that Glock's term for their trigger system)- sounds like a manufatuers sales term or something that sounds good but really has no practical meaning. I would think the PD would have some say in what specific pistol they would allow so you may not want to make any decision until you find that out.

Most of the manufacturers have a version of a HG meant for LEO that doesn't have a safety. And the ones that do have a safety you simply don't use it. Most PDs have policies against using SA pistols like 1911's that require s safety.

Glocks are the ussual gun chosen but S&W M&Ps and Springfield XDs are pretty much the same as far a being striker-fired guns with consitent trigger pulls and are used a lot by PDs. Otherwise you get into DA/SA guns like Sig-Sauers, Heckler & Kochs, FNHs, etc. Although some have safeties (or some form of de-cocker to be able to carry without bing in SA) for the benefit of civilian users, they can simply be disreguarded.

Any manufactuer that has contracts with PDs or the military will also have a solid pistol to chosse from. You need to know what the PD allows (if it has any restrictions) before you can really make any decision.

So if you don't like Glocks - Check out the M&Ps and XDs ( Ihave a XD9 Service that I like a lot - better than my Glock 26 - although they really aren't comparable becaude of the size difference). FNH has the FNS-9 that has gotten very good reviews. There's also the Sig P320. Those are the more common striker-fired (maybe a Walther P99 which although striker ahs a de-cocker and works more like a DA/SA).

Sig-Sauer and Heckler & Koch have the better DA/SA models. They cost more but the extra $$ should not be a factor if it's a gun you will rely on.

Most of these are solid pistols which have different triggers and that will be where you'll probably base your decision on. Find a way to shoot a few at the range.
 
Glocks are the ussual gun chosen but S&W M&Ps and Springfield XDs are pretty much the same as far a being striker-fired guns with consitent trigger pulls and are used a lot by PDs. Otherwise you get into DA/SA guns like Sig-Sauers, Heckler & Kochs, FNHs, etc. Although some have safeties (or some form of de-cocker to be able to carry without bing in SA) for the benefit of civilian users, they can simply be disreguarded.
Click to expand...

So much muddy missinformation in this post it is hard to know where to begin. :rolleyes:

Glocks, M&Ps and XDs are all striker fire guns but they all function differently. All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles.

I am not sure what you mean by Although some have safeties (or some form of de-cocker to be able to carry without bing in SA) for the benefit of civilian users, they can simply be disreguarded.

Why would someone carrying a DA/SA gun disregard a decocker? A manual safety and a decocker serve different functions on a DA/SA gun.
 
So he asked me about what to carry when / if he becomes employed as a LEO. My first suggestion was to ask if the PD has a list of suggested weapons and go from there. This he will do. He said he wants something that would be draw and ready, no safeties to have to remember in the heat of battle. First thing that came to my mind was Glock. But, I'm really not a fan of Glock pistols, for reasons that may be my problem.
Click to expand...

Glock 19 or Glock 17. Done. Look, like them or not (and I'm "indifferent to mildly favorable"), they're so common, so ubiquitous, he needs to be familiar with them.

(Assuming they don't issue him one, or specify one.)

Also, he brought up caliber. My first suggestion was 9mm. Second .45acp. He thinks the 9mm is too wimpy and the .45acp is too much, then mentioned the .40. I'm going to have a hard time explaining to him that the .45acp is mild as compared to the .40 and a 9mm really isn't wimpy at all, and would give him quicker follow up shots.
Click to expand...

Oh, Lord, not this again. :D

Get hi a 9mm. They're easy to shoot, and (relatively) cheap to shoot, and it's likely he'll end up with one, anyway. If not, it shouldn't be difficult to sell off to fund whatever it is he ends up thinking he needs.
 
"Safe action" is one of the descriptors that Glock has traditionally used to name it's action, that why Glock comes up with that search term.

Handguns are kind of a personal choice. What works for you may be not be optimal to me. That said, I'm not a LEO but work with many, especially the local sheriff's dept. The old guys ALL carry 1911s and most of the younger, say <40, carry Glocks. Mostly G17s and G22s. I'm an old guy and carried a 1911 until about 3 years ago. I carry a G21.

As has been said, what he carries will be dependent on his department regs and, to a lesser degree, the culture of his fellow officers.
 
This is all speculation until he gets picked up by an agency and learns what they approve. Both in guns AND calibers.

A Glock in 9mm would be my professional recommendation. He's "9mm is wimpy, 45 is too much" is not based in real world performance of EITHER caliber.

The 9 would give him an edge in capacity, a lower recoil impulse to control meaning an easier to shoot faster platform. As a newer shooter in the tactical realm those are big bonuses

The 40 is a good round, but has a bit of snappiness to the recoil and dosent offer any REAL WORLD benefit in terminal performance.

Id offer the Glock 19 as a good all around gun. Big enough to use on duty. Can accept weapon mounted lights easily. Small enough to carry OFF duty as a concealed weapon. A G17 or G34 would make a better PURE duty gun, but would be harder to carry off duty.

Glock offers its "blue label program" to LEO that offers good prices on all their models.
 
I agree with your advice about caliber. Certainly make inquiries about what he is allowed to carry, but I would take it one step further and advise him not to make a purchase until he has undergone his training. It sounds like he isn't that familiar with pistols and the pluses and minuses of various features. There are LEOs who have spoken and written in favor of thumb safeties and mag safeties, on the grounds that in close contact situations there is at least some possibilities of them losing control of their firearm. In those situations, a thumb safety might give them a valuable moment or two to react while the BG figures out the weapon, and dropping the mag during a struggle for a handgun with a mag safety disables it. His training might or might not change his mind about those features, so it might be to early to make the purchase.
 
I would encourage him to find out if there are a majority of officers at his department carrying a certain type of weapon in a certain caliber. You want your magazines to be interchangeable with the guys who are going to be backing you on calls.

And here's a study you can show him that pretty much proves caliber doesn't mean a hill of beans until you start talking about rifle vs pistol:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

The most telling statistic, IMO, is the percentage of hits that were fatal, with 9mm coming in at 24%, .40 at 25%, and .45 at 29%. The rest of the data is a little skewed by sample size and the fact that most of the cases of 9mm shootings were by military members using ball ammo. Or at least that's what I gathered from it, YMMV.
 
Last edited:
Mike, what your son-in-law wants for the "heat of battle", hardware, actions, calibers, safeties, stopping power, etc are not really the issue at this point. Even though he passed his physical and written, the process, if anything like our state, is far from over. If he is actually hired, I would suggest waiting until the firearm portion of his training to learn his department's policies and from the training they provide. Some agencies issue only a particular weapon in a particular caliber, some have a list of weapons and/or calibers approved for personal purchase and carry, a minority give officers wide latitude in weapon selection. As he gets into the firearms portion of his training, his ideas about what he wants or needs, even if given a choice, may very well change.
 
Last edited:
Well this thread has potential to get interesting.


As far as caliber... The agency he works for will usually dictate that, as they tend to issue ammo. If they allow different calibers, I suggest 9mm.

Its not hard to explain at all. Explain the FBI tests, explain that between 9,40,and 45 total energy is useless in determining performance, as it is too low to actually increase performance with the way we understand wounding and incapacitation at this time. Explain that the FBI is moving back to 9mm, as modern 9mm performance matches 40 and 45 in most ways. That there is increased capacity, lower recoil, and training is easier. 9mm also does not need +p to be effective, in fact, in modern loads like HST, standard pressure loads penetrate a couple inches deeper, and have similar wound channels to +p.

Other rounds are not bad choices, and if he wants 40,then it is a good round. I just feel 9mm is the better choice for most people and situations. 40 does have a few advantages but they are more niche, but relevant to police work. (barrier penetration performance for example, though 9mm is catching up on that area too)


As far as what Pistol.

Many agencies have approved lists.

Glock 17
M&P9

Both tend to be on those lists. I don't like the stock M&P trigger, and trigger work may not be allowed by the agency. The Glock trigger is not perfect, but better out of the box. The full M&P apex trigger kit is probably the absolute best striker trigger available in my opinion, though as was said, modification may not be allowed.

If there is no approved list, or if it makes it on it, the new H&K VP9 is truly an excellent pistol. One of the best striker triggers out of the box.

As well as the Sig 320 (which is quickly gaining steam in law enforcement) it also has a good trigger, and opinions swing between it and the VP9 as to which is better... It's personal preference really, as they are both good but different.

I think the Walther PPQ has the best out of box striker trigger, though I don't see it mentioned often for police use in the US.

I really like the Sig 226 (more so in elite form) but some do not like the DA/SA operation. Though it is a smooth and accurate shooter.


Allow him to try different pistols, and be closer to knowing which agency he will be working for. The place interviewing him is a good place to start. If he gets the job with the place, then you will be ahead of the game with a short list.
 
Last edited:
Striker Fired! That's the term I should have been using. Not sure why I was thinking Safe Action. I guess it came from the CCW class I had taken a short while back. The instructor was a local LEO and carried a Glock, so he used it a lot. Then again, he called the extractor an ejector, but I won't hold that against him, none of us are perfect. I proved that with Safe Action.

Good advice in this thread. I will have my Son-in-law read it. Keep the opinions coming, I'm finding it all interesting. Thanks.
 
If he is allowed to use it, I highly recommend the CZ75BD Police model. No safety, just a decocker that makes the first shot heavier. Every shot after that is lighter, and the single action on the CZ is like butter. I prefer hammer fired guns to striker fired, and the CZ is much nicer to shoot than a Glock to me. The 9mm round is plenty with a good, high powered hollow point. Many police departments (and even the FBI) are going back to 9mm.
 
The OP's answers are in his 4th and 5th sentences of the original post.
1. "...if he gets hired..."
2. "...ask...if there's an approved list"

I've heard unemployed cadets say things like, "I don't like Glocks." "I won't work for an agency unless I can carry a SIG." That severely limits that person. He may find an agency which carries a particular make/model of handgun, but either doesn't get a job offer, or later, finds out the agency is not ideal as an employer for the employee for a variety of reasons, nothing to do regarding the choice of handguns.

Off-duty, I can carry just about anything I want (not all agencies are like mine) and will usually be carrying either 9mm or .45ACP; although I own various other calibered guns. For work, I must carry a Glock 17 gen4.

Over the years, I carried an S&W 4006, Glock 22 (3 different ones), and now the Glock 17gen4, along with a variety of backup guns.

Don't get caught up in a specific, ideal make, model, & caliber of firearm right now. It's seldom perfect in an agency. He hasn't even touched on shotguns and rifles yet, among other weapons.

Edited to add:
Later, when picking a brand, also consider what type of armorer and accessory support is available.
 
What does the department carry Brand and Caliber. That to me makes sense rather than all over the place in brand type and caliber
 
Like others have said, I'd wait to find out what the department carries. If all else was equal and I was working security or LE and could choose my own sidearm, I'd like a CZ-75BD given the requirements listed. But, I'm just a CZ-75 lover and that's the reason for that.
 
SA/DA CZ p01
SAO Glock 19

Both are highly reliable pistols at around $500. LEOs can get discounts on Glocks, I don't know if that holds true on CZs.
 
I would recommend looking at what firearms are issued to whatever agencies your son is interested in joining.

The list will be short:

Glock.

Many departments issue Glock 22s in .40, and many more issue 17s in 9mm, while a few issue 21s in .45; but they mostly issue Glocks.

Like it, love it, hate it, that is the world we live in.

The sooner he gets a chance to acquire an issue-grade handgun (ie Glock, Sig P-series, S&W M&P) and can practice doing safety checks, snap-cap dry firing, field stripping, etc. the better. This will give him a big leg up going forward, even if the firearm he gets isn't the exact issue handgun of his agency. But, every rep spent with the issue handgun, whether agency owned or personal, is a good training rep.

For a personal handgun, I highly recommend a 9mm, as it is cheaper to own and practice with. Let's face it: the more you shoot, the better you get at it, and the 9mm let's you get the most time on the trigger. Beyond the preference for cheaper practice ammunition, as other users have noted, the issue of caliber is agency dependent: they will specify and issue both the firearm and the ammunition, so personal choice is rarely an issue.

An alternate way of doing this would be to get a P229 in .40 and get a P228 9mm upper for it, or a Sig X-change kit in 9mm, allowing you to get the best of both worlds. As far as Glocks go, you can get a Glock 23 or 22 in .40, and then get a 9mm conversion barrel to run 9mm at the range, swapping back to .40 for carry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top