I am going to start reloading. I am deciding which reloader to use. I have basically settled on an MEC reloader, either a 650 or a SIZEMASTER. As between the two, the Sizemaster is not a progressive reloader, whereas a 650 is. Speed is not necessarily an imperative so I am leaning towards the Sizemaster. The 650 requires a seperate resizer, which I understand is necessary, in that I shoot both a Mossberg pump and a Spartan O/U. Apparently if you shoot two guns, resizing is a necessity to guarantee that the reloads will work in either gun, plus I am getting the majority of hulls from discards at the range and I don't know from whence they were shot. Also, I don't understand the theory behind indexing, if there is a theory behind indexing. Auto indexing v. manual indexing. I don't understand indexing. The MEC 600 Jr. Mark 5 plus the auto primer feeder costs the same as the Sizemaster with the automatic prime feeder included, the Sizemaster seems to be a more substantial maching, otherwise the Jr. would probably be adaquate. Any information you can share on reloading, besides don't, will be appreciated.
Help on reloading-indexing
- Thread starter glsimon
- Start date
Welcome to TFL!
I am not sure of 1) your level of experience with reloading - specifically shotshells. 2) What exactly you mean by "indexing".
If can I would get a basic Reloading Manual showing how the MECs work , and includes Hull ID and had recipes. Mine is old. Others can chime in on newer books with information showing how various reloaders work, terminology and so on.
Mine actually shows each step and how to adjust different MEC models.
Indexing: If I understand the question correctly...Single stage means the reloader [ You] pulls the lever for each separate operation. Manually Indexing positions of the hull for each step.
Progressive - one puts one shell in, then pulls the handle, MEC 9000 is what I used and automatically Indexed or rotated the hull to next position, another shell is added, handle pulled , and what happens is, each stroke of handle pull / returning "up" automatically does multiple stages , drops finished shell into a bin, rotates, and instead of one operation at a time as a single stage, one doing multiple tasks at the same time. On the 9000 once set up with hulls "loaded" , you put in one new hull, one finished shell drops into bin and in between these stages , depriming, sizing, pwder drops, wad, shot, precrimp crimp...Links below better explain...I just do the durn thing. *grin*
I, Like many started out with single stage reloaders. In fact my Versmec 700 still works. I personally like the way this one resizes the hull from the top - open end, to all the way down to base.
9000 uses a Collet. think of the hull dropping into fingers coming from below and resizing that way.
If can find someone that reloads. Get an invite to watch. Perhaps a Range, or Gunstore will have a MEC operational to see used. Even better see a single and progressive side by side.
If it were me, I'd get the 600 Jr. Mark 5. Single stage. IMO/IME new shotshell reloaders find this easier to learn on. Easier to be safe and not goof up.
Many Reloaders keep at least one of these - always. No matter how many 9000s they end up with later on.
Honestly, these two are my favorites. Seems all the folks I know use these two and none of the other models.
Well except for us old pharts still using Versamec 700s that is.
HTH,
Steve
http://www.mecreloaders.com/main.asp
http://www.mecreloaders.com/productline/600JrMark5.asp
http://www.mecreloaders.com/productline/9000.asp
I am not sure of 1) your level of experience with reloading - specifically shotshells. 2) What exactly you mean by "indexing".
If can I would get a basic Reloading Manual showing how the MECs work , and includes Hull ID and had recipes. Mine is old. Others can chime in on newer books with information showing how various reloaders work, terminology and so on.
Mine actually shows each step and how to adjust different MEC models.
Indexing: If I understand the question correctly...Single stage means the reloader [ You] pulls the lever for each separate operation. Manually Indexing positions of the hull for each step.
Progressive - one puts one shell in, then pulls the handle, MEC 9000 is what I used and automatically Indexed or rotated the hull to next position, another shell is added, handle pulled , and what happens is, each stroke of handle pull / returning "up" automatically does multiple stages , drops finished shell into a bin, rotates, and instead of one operation at a time as a single stage, one doing multiple tasks at the same time. On the 9000 once set up with hulls "loaded" , you put in one new hull, one finished shell drops into bin and in between these stages , depriming, sizing, pwder drops, wad, shot, precrimp crimp...Links below better explain...I just do the durn thing. *grin*
I, Like many started out with single stage reloaders. In fact my Versmec 700 still works. I personally like the way this one resizes the hull from the top - open end, to all the way down to base.
9000 uses a Collet. think of the hull dropping into fingers coming from below and resizing that way.
If can find someone that reloads. Get an invite to watch. Perhaps a Range, or Gunstore will have a MEC operational to see used. Even better see a single and progressive side by side.
If it were me, I'd get the 600 Jr. Mark 5. Single stage. IMO/IME new shotshell reloaders find this easier to learn on. Easier to be safe and not goof up.
Many Reloaders keep at least one of these - always. No matter how many 9000s they end up with later on.
Honestly, these two are my favorites. Seems all the folks I know use these two and none of the other models.
Well except for us old pharts still using Versamec 700s that is.
HTH,
Steve
http://www.mecreloaders.com/main.asp
http://www.mecreloaders.com/productline/600JrMark5.asp
http://www.mecreloaders.com/productline/9000.asp
Steve,
Thank you. I think your correct about indexing. My question reveals more than anything my experience with reloading, actually, my experience with shot gunning in general. When I was stationed at Camp Pendleton, in the last century, I had the opportunity to do some trap shooting and never forgot how enjoyable the experience was. As things went, I relocated again in San Diego and in retirement am able to tread the old paths, Miramar Gun Club, now San Diego Shotgun Sports. As time will now allow, I am enjoying all aspects of the sport, hoprfully, reloading included.
I agree with you about the Junior being a more than adequate machine. I’ve found it on the net for $101.00 plus $55.00 for the automatic primer feeder bringing it up to +-$155.00, the same price as the Sizemaster; the Sizemaster looks like a larger machine, more substantial, but essentially the same machine. In terms of learning the art of reloading, and it’s an art, I have ordered Lymans 4th edition shotshell handbook and numerous other tomes through the library. Hoping to glean enough info before commencing. Indexing had me puzzled, but your definition fits.
Again, Steve, thanks for the info and by the way you have a great forum here.
GAS
Thank you. I think your correct about indexing. My question reveals more than anything my experience with reloading, actually, my experience with shot gunning in general. When I was stationed at Camp Pendleton, in the last century, I had the opportunity to do some trap shooting and never forgot how enjoyable the experience was. As things went, I relocated again in San Diego and in retirement am able to tread the old paths, Miramar Gun Club, now San Diego Shotgun Sports. As time will now allow, I am enjoying all aspects of the sport, hoprfully, reloading included.
I agree with you about the Junior being a more than adequate machine. I’ve found it on the net for $101.00 plus $55.00 for the automatic primer feeder bringing it up to +-$155.00, the same price as the Sizemaster; the Sizemaster looks like a larger machine, more substantial, but essentially the same machine. In terms of learning the art of reloading, and it’s an art, I have ordered Lymans 4th edition shotshell handbook and numerous other tomes through the library. Hoping to glean enough info before commencing. Indexing had me puzzled, but your definition fits.
Again, Steve, thanks for the info and by the way you have a great forum here.
GAS
Reloading
For Mec's, go with model that resizes brass. Have used 650 for many 1000's
of reloads, and any swelled brass has to be discarded. If price is not
main concern, go with ponsness-warren 800 or platnium, for best, long-life
results. Primer feed on mec's is POS. A Hornady 366 is a good choice, and less than P_W.
For Mec's, go with model that resizes brass. Have used 650 for many 1000's
of reloads, and any swelled brass has to be discarded. If price is not
main concern, go with ponsness-warren 800 or platnium, for best, long-life
results. Primer feed on mec's is POS. A Hornady 366 is a good choice, and less than P_W.
glsimon,
It is I that thanks you.
To keep it - give it away
My forum, No , Just a guest here myself. Rich and his fine staff allow me to visit, I can enter with CCW, just have to wipe my feet first , and not get into Miko's dog treats.
Internet is a great Communication tool, difficult at times without verbal / physical communications such as tone, inflection, and the body language.
So I apologize for not picking up on your experiences.
pinestraw better clarified my reason for the Single Stage with full resizing of brass. Thank you pinestraw.
Discarded hulls : one never knows the shotgun fired from. Pumps & Gas guns often "expand" hulls moreso than two barrel guns [O/U, SxS] -oops forgot single shot shotguns as well.
Aside-
Yes that is a good choice. As I stated earlier, my favorite Reloading Manual is not handy at the moment. I cannot recall the exact Title. IIRC Kenneth Cougar was one of the Authors/ Contributors.
Mine has Hull ID with color pictures. As you know for instance, Winchester AA hull was used across many of the Win Line. So knowing how to ID the "Compression Formed Hull" was great.
Sadly, the 40 year AA Compression formed hull "making machine" - wore out and is not going to be replaced. AA is now a TWO pc hull called "HS".
I would find all the OLD AA Compression formed I could find. In new hull offerings I would Use Remintons STS hulls.
A good reference with color pictures, and text to describe the hulls, and how they run across the various Mfg product lines is a great help.
Yes the Ponsess-Warren is a GREAT machine. Pricey, still Superb.
Hornaday...a shooting buddy or two had these, I never could warm up to them. Eventually they sold theirs to folks whom had Hornady in other gauges.
Regional favorite dealie, as Hornady seemed to be more prevelant in their part of the country.
Around My parts, the MEC was the most popular and local Gun shops and Sporting goods at the time Stocked not only MEC reloader, also components such as primer trays, wad fingers,bushings,charge bars and even the kits to convert to another gauge.
Single Stage:
Now I had as many as 11 shotshell reloaders up and running at one time. I shot all 4 guages. My serious competition loads were always done on a Single Stage. I was not wanting "quanity" with these loads - I wanted "quality".
Single stage also allowed me do to load testings. I have many times taken the Single Stage with me to the Pattern Board as I worked up a loading for hunting, for a particular task (Sporting clays, 5 stand), and more important 1) getting a load for a particular gun/ be it mine or anothers and 2) teaching.
Often I /We would have folks new to shooting learn to reload. May be folks that used to shoot, been awhile and needed a refresher, or younger folks.
I had one Grandad, his son, the grandson attending one of these. WE finish up, some folks had to leave, others stayed to shoot or just hang around to vist.
Small grandson did not understand everything, but sensed the Grandad"s gun gift was big deal. So the grandad is helping the little fella shoot stationary targets. His dad...mixed feelings of seeing this and knowing granddad would not be around that much longer.
I had a single stage on the tailgate of the truck, I was piddling with something.
"You said you can do these over and over again..." . I got a kid about so high, standing there , looking up at me handing me two shells he just shot with his new gun.
My piddling / testing was not important. It was too much fun to watch him shoot, with granddad's help, run over to me to reload "his" hulls, "do it again... this is Fuuuunnn!!"...and his dad...he got blow up balloons and thumbtack on a board, for his son to shoot.
Yes he had to pull the handle to "bump the primer out". He just had too much fun seeing "his shells" being loaded, shooting them...and running back and repeating.
9000 series:
I cranked out practice loads. In 12 ga alone some years I shot 25K rds in a year. I reloaded all 4 gauges. I know at one time I had over 50k reloaded 28 ga shells not to mention all the other shells in the other gauges out there- explains why my gargage did not see a vehicle...it was a storage room with a big door to unload into my vehicle as I headed out to shoot.
Makes perfect sense to me.
You may just need to work up a load, single stage is good. Once found, trasition to a Progressive to crank out more- faster.
I never owned my own RockChucker for metallic. I horsetraded shotshells with folks that had multiple metallic reloaders. WE worked up loads for specific guns, mine and theirs respectfully. My metallic buddies always worked up new loads on single stages as well.
Again welcome to TFL, and have fun getting back into shooting. Yeah I know you miss all the free ammo you used to shoot...you earned the right to buy your own, reload it, and not have to get up at 0500 unless YOU want to.
Regards,
Steve
It is I that thanks you.
To keep it - give it away
My forum, No , Just a guest here myself. Rich and his fine staff allow me to visit, I can enter with CCW, just have to wipe my feet first , and not get into Miko's dog treats.
Internet is a great Communication tool, difficult at times without verbal / physical communications such as tone, inflection, and the body language.
So I apologize for not picking up on your experiences.
pinestraw better clarified my reason for the Single Stage with full resizing of brass. Thank you pinestraw.
Discarded hulls : one never knows the shotgun fired from. Pumps & Gas guns often "expand" hulls moreso than two barrel guns [O/U, SxS] -oops forgot single shot shotguns as well.
Aside-
Yes that is a good choice. As I stated earlier, my favorite Reloading Manual is not handy at the moment. I cannot recall the exact Title. IIRC Kenneth Cougar was one of the Authors/ Contributors.
Mine has Hull ID with color pictures. As you know for instance, Winchester AA hull was used across many of the Win Line. So knowing how to ID the "Compression Formed Hull" was great.
Sadly, the 40 year AA Compression formed hull "making machine" - wore out and is not going to be replaced. AA is now a TWO pc hull called "HS".
I would find all the OLD AA Compression formed I could find. In new hull offerings I would Use Remintons STS hulls.
A good reference with color pictures, and text to describe the hulls, and how they run across the various Mfg product lines is a great help.
Yes the Ponsess-Warren is a GREAT machine. Pricey, still Superb.
Hornaday...a shooting buddy or two had these, I never could warm up to them. Eventually they sold theirs to folks whom had Hornady in other gauges.
Regional favorite dealie, as Hornady seemed to be more prevelant in their part of the country.
Around My parts, the MEC was the most popular and local Gun shops and Sporting goods at the time Stocked not only MEC reloader, also components such as primer trays, wad fingers,bushings,charge bars and even the kits to convert to another gauge.
Single Stage:
Now I had as many as 11 shotshell reloaders up and running at one time. I shot all 4 guages. My serious competition loads were always done on a Single Stage. I was not wanting "quanity" with these loads - I wanted "quality".
Single stage also allowed me do to load testings. I have many times taken the Single Stage with me to the Pattern Board as I worked up a loading for hunting, for a particular task (Sporting clays, 5 stand), and more important 1) getting a load for a particular gun/ be it mine or anothers and 2) teaching.
Often I /We would have folks new to shooting learn to reload. May be folks that used to shoot, been awhile and needed a refresher, or younger folks.
I had one Grandad, his son, the grandson attending one of these. WE finish up, some folks had to leave, others stayed to shoot or just hang around to vist.
Small grandson did not understand everything, but sensed the Grandad"s gun gift was big deal. So the grandad is helping the little fella shoot stationary targets. His dad...mixed feelings of seeing this and knowing granddad would not be around that much longer.
I had a single stage on the tailgate of the truck, I was piddling with something.
"You said you can do these over and over again..." . I got a kid about so high, standing there , looking up at me handing me two shells he just shot with his new gun.
My piddling / testing was not important. It was too much fun to watch him shoot, with granddad's help, run over to me to reload "his" hulls, "do it again... this is Fuuuunnn!!"...and his dad...he got blow up balloons and thumbtack on a board, for his son to shoot.
Yes he had to pull the handle to "bump the primer out". He just had too much fun seeing "his shells" being loaded, shooting them...and running back and repeating.
9000 series:
I cranked out practice loads. In 12 ga alone some years I shot 25K rds in a year. I reloaded all 4 gauges. I know at one time I had over 50k reloaded 28 ga shells not to mention all the other shells in the other gauges out there- explains why my gargage did not see a vehicle...it was a storage room with a big door to unload into my vehicle as I headed out to shoot.
Makes perfect sense to me.
You may just need to work up a load, single stage is good. Once found, trasition to a Progressive to crank out more- faster.
I never owned my own RockChucker for metallic. I horsetraded shotshells with folks that had multiple metallic reloaders. WE worked up loads for specific guns, mine and theirs respectfully. My metallic buddies always worked up new loads on single stages as well.
Again welcome to TFL, and have fun getting back into shooting. Yeah I know you miss all the free ammo you used to shoot...you earned the right to buy your own, reload it, and not have to get up at 0500 unless YOU want to.
Regards,
Steve
Indexing only applies to progressive presses and indicates the method (manual vs automatic) by which the rotating shell holder/base is turned to align the case with the next die. MEC 650's are great machines and use MANUAL indexing. The shell plate is manually turned to align the shells with the next station. Used a pair of MEC 650's for ~25 years and then gave them to my brother. They still work fine. Hornady 366 reloaders use automatic indexing. When you pull/raise the handle, the shells are automatically rotated to align with the next die station. The H366 also works well. Choose your style and go for it.
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
Thanks
Steve, and Others:
It is your forum. Everytime you ask a question or post a reply you carry the reputation of the forum on your shoulders, and that is a big responsibility. All of the posts that I have read, both current and archived were very well stated and showed a lot of class and dignity.
You’re right. Reading a post does not carry the body language, infliction and demeanor of a face-to-face conversation, but consider the alternative (I'd rather not). Be it this forum or many others; to lose them would be a large chunk out of my life. Let’s face it, all I’ve ever gotten from this forum is knowledge, education and experience that is unavailable anywhere else… anywhere else!
Thanks
GAS
Steve, and Others:
It is your forum. Everytime you ask a question or post a reply you carry the reputation of the forum on your shoulders, and that is a big responsibility. All of the posts that I have read, both current and archived were very well stated and showed a lot of class and dignity.
You’re right. Reading a post does not carry the body language, infliction and demeanor of a face-to-face conversation, but consider the alternative (I'd rather not). Be it this forum or many others; to lose them would be a large chunk out of my life. Let’s face it, all I’ve ever gotten from this forum is knowledge, education and experience that is unavailable anywhere else… anywhere else!
Thanks
GAS