Help on Dbl Tap and "Mozambique"

E

EastSideRich

New member
I've been concentrating on these two at the range. If I slow down and get a look at my sights for each shot, I get acceptable (to me) groups where I want them. If I fire at the rate I would like to have, I'm kind of all over the place. From 7-10 yds they are still in the silhouette, but could not be covered with a piece of notebook paper. A little better than half of my third shots are in the head when firing rapidly.
I enjoy shooting faster, so thats mostly what I end up doing.

Would you shoot them slow and try to go faster over time, or would you shoot fast and try to work on accuracy?

Do you get a sight picture for each shot, or can you just "feel" where the gun is pointing after a while?

Any other tips for running these drills?
 
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

First take your time in the exercise, working with the sights and keeping both eyes open. Maintaining a proper grip, learn the sights and the gun's reaction to being fired. Begin with just putting the holes where you want them, take your time, get to know the gun and let your muscles learn what they need to do. After you have that down, you are ready to start using sight picture to make the hits without having to think about what you are seeing. As you practice the eyes and the muscles will co-ordinate so that you will have a correct sight picture and will only have to make the shoot/no-shoot decision. After more practice, keeping it smooth (slow is smooth) and working on your skills you will find you get smooth (slow is smooth) and after awhile you will find that your body is almost running on auto-pilot and the only thing you have to do is make tactical choices while your body smoothly carries out its tasks (smooth is fast).

I wish I could express the idea as eloquently as others on this board, just keep in mind "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" as you do your practice. It helps... a lot.
 
Help on Dbl Tap and "Mozambique" The Mozambique came from an actual self defense shooting in Africa, the two in the body was followed by a failed ( i believe) head shot, it got flinched through the neck! fight over.

The double tap is just two shots! the advice to shoot smooth was good.

The trigger is the most important part of all this, press don't jerk it.

Good luck.
 
Can't say it any better than this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbg2s2bfjhw

or demo it much better than this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQKr2AkKDU

You have to learn to see your sight. It is a hard concept to explain, but you need to trust what you see without your conscious mind being in the loop. Until you can do that, you probably won't be able to shoot the way you want to.

When talking to yourself about shooting, you should not use words like fast or slow. Nor should you try to go "faster" or "slower". You should let the sight dictate when you shoot, nothing else. The best explanation I can give right now is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN0rTnL1fJs



You will find some helpful stuff here and over time even more:
www.personalshootingcoach.com
 
Repitition

My profession is physical and cognitive rehabilitation, specializing in upper extremity work where restoration of fine motor skills after trauma or stroke is a key goal. Learning a new fine motor task, whether whether double tapping or tying shoes, goes like this.

One must repeat an unfamiliar fine motor task accurately 2,000-4,000 times before it has been learned to the point that it can be performed subconsciously.

When we first begin to learn a new physical skill, we think about what we're doing, usually with great concentration. This occurs within the frontal lobe of the brain. Simultaneously, the physical sensation of how to perform this new task is processed within the sensory motor strip of the brain's cerebral cortex. With enough repetition, the memory of how it feels to perform the new activity becomes chemically coded, and that coded molecule is moved out of the front of the brain, and stored within a lower, deeper portion of the brain. This frees the front part of the brain to learn new stuff, and to be available for such things as situational awareness when we are engaged in a complex fine motor activity (driving, typing, tying shoes, etc).

Regarding high speed shooting (double taps), what this means is, do a lot of dry fire practice, drawing, sighting and snapping on an empty chamber. Front sight, press; front sight, press. This isn't bullseye: at pistol gunfighting range you can get very loose with the alignment of the front sight in the rear sight notch, as long as that front sight is superimposed on where you want to hit. Get very precise with grip and stance. Draw and snap, every day, at least twice a day, for a couple of dozen repetitions, or until you begin to lose concentration. Be slow and accurate, resisting the temptation to rush, repeating the same, deliberate correct motion. Enhanced speed will come naturally, and 100 reps a day will give 2,000-4,000 reps fairly quickly. Double tapping will be much more accurate after the body fully understands the "single tap". Live fire practice will go much better after all of the dry firing.

When live firing, you will find that you will begin to anticipate recoil, and will actually be working to pull the gun back down on the target as soon as the first shot has been fired. You'll notice this when you have emptied the gun at the target without realizing it, and you'll experience a sharp dip in the muzzle, kind of like a flinch without being a flinch. This comes from pushing the gun forward to overcome anticipated recoil. I think this is one of the reasons that some people like to use a DA revolver for fast work, because stroking the trigger for the next shot works to pull the muzzle down.

Sorry for the length of this post. My wife tells me that when people ask me for the time I tell them how to build a watch. Hope this helps.
 
What I do goes against most of the advice I've seen posted here and in books about sight alignment and the process of shooting. So take it for what it's worth, one guy's experience

For normal precision shooting (trying to hit the X ring) I focus on aligning the sights with my focus on the front sight and the target blurry. This is a pretty slow deliberate process with me. I rarely go for precise shots, I'm not into Bullseye shooting very much.

For double taps and Mozambiques (this is for defensive shooting on an IDPA target) a huge degree of accuracy is not necessary. You have a 8 inch circle for the body shots and a 4 inch square for the head (I think that's right...). I focus on the target, where I want my shots to go, and align the sights up while staying focused on the target. I find my sight picture is not crystal clear but alignment is easier and faster, albeit not as precise.

I squeeze the first shot without moving my focus, the gun goes up, I take up the SLACK in the trigger (not prepping it, just taking up the loose play). When the sights come back down, if I did my job, they are still aligned on the spot I want to hit. I squeeze as soon as I see the sights in alignment. Move my eyes up to the head area, take up the slack in the trigger again on the way up and as soon as my sights come into my vision I align and squeeze again.

The key for me is to not anticipate recoil or the perfect moment for sight alignment, when you start anticipating you are likely to flinch or jerk the trigger. I started doing this VERY slowly and deliberately, if I maintain a good grip on the gun and my trigger discipline is good I will hit all three shots most of the time.
 
You can't have this discussion without posting the one Hollywood movie shooting sequence that I was actually impressed with.

Though the actor in this video is a fruitcake, I read an interview where he said that he spent hours practicing to get this drill right.

Watch the draw from concealment, the quick double tap to COM on the primary, the Mozambique on the secondary and, while it is satisfying to watch, the completely unneeded and illegal coup de grace on the primary target.

Tom Cruise in 'Collateral'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1_-a0coag&feature=related
 
while it is satisfying to watch, the completely unneeded and illegal coup de grace on the primary target.
Click to expand...

Come on lets be fair,I mean after all he is a hitman and the shot was needed, not to stop, but to kill. Thats what hitmen do.
 
There is a certain irony

in commenting on the relative illegality of a shot fired by a hit man.

What I really like about that scene, though, is that the move Cruise uses is, in origin, a sword entry.

Looks like his training for The Last Samurai yielded some good choreography for Collateral.
 
If you watch the scene closely, you'll note that the second shooter had to bobble his draw to make it play out properly.
 
Reply to JohnKsa

I'll have to watch it again.

The deflection move he makes against the primary is a sword entry technique, not a big wide block, but an angling inward attack, that deflects the right (gun) hand just enough to take it off while he brings his own attack home.

If they'd done this perfectly (unlikely in the real world, but to demonstrate the theory), Cruise would have stepped in deeper and to his left / their right, which would have put the primary between Cruise and the secondary. That would have done away with the need for the bobble, due to blocking the line of fire with the first BG.

Never get between them if you can avoid it.

Always put one of them between you and the rest if you can.
 
When doing double taps, you do NOT want really tight groups. You want both shots to be in the center of the target about a hand's width apart. If you try to get really tight groups, you are target shooting and not speed shooting. Also keep in mind that by spreading out your hits on the target a little bit, you are producing extra trauma to the bad guy which might be better than hitting him in one location. This is also why boxers strike their opponents in several locations instead of going after one area all the time. It is hard for the body to react to multiple hits on it from several places. With double taps it is okay to open up your pattern a little bit and not be too tight.
 
Practice is what it takes, and a lot of it.
Get the draw down so it is smooth and the speed will gradually come.

Trying to push for the speed while learning the draw will result in a lot of wasted time and ammunition.

Even at Gunsite the first emphasis is on getting the draw down to be smooth.
By the end of the week (and around 1000 rounds latter) the speed is usually pretty good.

You do NOT want double taps closer than about an inch.
You already shot the guy there once, make a NEW hole at a different spot.
You are more likely to hit something else important.
 
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Double taps

I'm glad I am doing something right. I have no trouble keeping my groups opened up. No sir, no two shot too close!
 
slow first

Would you shoot them slow and try to go faster over time
Click to expand...
I couldn't practice drawing from concealment or open due to the range I use to practice at.
But I did get pretty good at "failure to stop drills" (I think that is the proper name for the exercise described) after fatigue set in though, I found it more difficult to keep the head shots on target
 
Double Tap Question

Are we missing something here?
In my old SF days (way back), we were taught the double tap applied to multiple targets. Two rapid shots into the "most dangerous" target, then shift to the next target. With one target, shoot 'till he stops moving.
 
Missing something? I dunno, I think it's just kinda drifted to "Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
 
I believe this is now called a failure drill.

Once of my favorite comments given to me while I am learning to shoot USPSA is you can't miss fast enough.

Accuracy first speed will follow.
 
I would like to thank everybody for the advice given to the OP. I will be heading to the range this week and I know I can use the info provided.

Thanks
 
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