Help on 9mm OAL

H

HighPressure

Inactive
Just finished loading my first rounds ever! A little concerned about the OAL. Can't seem to find a clear answer on what is safe. At this point accuracy is not top priority.

Here is what is going on:
Loading 9mm 124 gr. XTP into once shot Remington brass with CCI500 primers.
Finally found some powder at a local shop, it's power pistol. What I have read suggested 4.3 grains as a starting point with an OAL of 1.060". I'm using a Lee classic turret press took off the auto index and just doing one operation at a time. The OAL has been varying from 1.060 to 1.070 with a single outlier at 1.050".

I'm using Lyman dial calipers and the bullets are hollow points that don't have a real smooth edge. Could these two factors be causing the variation?

With a low dose of powder like this what is a safe OAL to shoot? Some folks talk about all the high pressures with decreased OAL.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Lyman 49th, p41: "Dependant upon the bullet and equipment used, the finished overall cartridge length may vary plus or minus 0.005." You can call the tech support from various reloading manufactures and they will probably say something like, 0.007" variance isn't a problem at the start as long as you inspect for pressure as you work up. I'd look into why they are varying so much. It might be a good idea to lube the turret where it glides inside the press that holds the die so it glides easily. When you operate the lever for the ram, you will notice the turret rises up a tad in the press. This is not a problem as long as it is consistent in that rise. If you have a non-lubed turret, you may be effected by uneven swing of the rotor due to the wall friction as it moves. Put a dab of oil on your finger and rub the sides thinly where metal on metal ride. It will also smooth out as it gets used more. The turret is a good press. Make sure the seater and crimp die is snug in place (no wrench, just firm finger tightening of the nut w/ the rubber ring in place. If you use a combination seater/crimp, then just the one die. Those rounds that are long and be seated a little closer. Take the rounds and divide them in lots so the longest oal is adjusted in first, then next longest, etc until you get them dialed in.
 
You really want to work backward when working up a new bullet and powder combination.

Make a dummy round with a fired case and bullet seated with no powder. Do the plunk test in the chamber you plan on firing it in, then adjust powder charge accordingly. If your barrel allows a full OAL, by all means use whatever charge you see fit in the reloading manual. My CZ on the other hand forces me to reduce charges as it's leade is nonexistent.:rolleyes:
 
Measure the length of 10 bullets and see how much they vary! That is what is causing the variation. Also make certain that you are using the correct seater plug. There is one for round nose and one for flat points.
 
It doesn't hurt to check if the resulted loaded rounds fit the magazine, either.
While it's rare to have the problem, it is possible.
And undoing hundreds of nice looking reloads is a real pain.
I know.
 
So how different are the round nose and flat nose bullet seaters? I have the Lee Die set that comes with a seater and factory crimp (I have not crimped yet).

Assuming they fit in mag and plunk test well, should I pull these apart because they might be unsafe or shoot them and do better next time?
 
It's not a huge deal if the wrong bullet seater is used, if that's all that's available.
Not as long as the adjustment is agreeable to the correct over all cartridge length for the particular load.
Just watch out for trying to seat a cock-eyed bullet because of it.
Unless you're loading for the max, it's not too likely a little variance in the bullet depth is dangerous.
There's probably a greater risk of an improperly crimped bullet getting shoved deeper in the case from recoil.
See, now that you have something else to worry over, you can be less concerned with the first one. :(
We aim to please.
(Where's the clown character, we need a clown - all good forums have a clown.)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the info guys!

After wiggling the cartridges around a bit in the calipers it looks like a range closer to 1.060" and 1.065". The outlier must have been during the initial setup of the dies in the press.

There appears to be a small line around the nose of the bullet where the seater must be making contact. Is this normal?

Should I take the extra step and factory crimp the cases? Can I do this too much?

Still stressing about my gun blowing up when I give these a try.
 
HighPressure, 1.060" sounds pretty short for a JHP, but 2 grains under Alliant data, you would be ok, but maybe not cycle the gun so good. Always get your load data from the powder manufacturer's web site because they are the ones who did the actual pressure testing, not some re-published book. Alliant shows 6.4 grains starting at 1.12" OAL for a Speer Gold Dot JHP, which is the same as a Hornady XTP. At the end of the day, OAL really depends on bullet shape and not so much charge weight, however, for the same charge weight, the pressure will increase as OAL decreases. I run 9mm 124's from 1.060" to 1.175" at 3.5 to 5.5 grains of TiteGroup. Keep in mind the crimp is not a crimp at all, but rather only rather to remove the bell from the powder thru station. Try the "wipe test" Mark your round with a permanent marker after seating, then go thru "crimp" It should only wipe about .005" from the case and drop into your case gage or barrel, called a plunk test.

Left to right, Montana Gold 124 JHP, Bayou 124 TC, Hornady 124 XTP, Bear Creak 125 RN.

image37275.jpg


image37113.jpg
 
Same bullets in .357SIG loads. 7.8 grains BE-86 at 1.140" Even though 1.140" is the standard maximum OAL, for a Glock, you can take it out to 1.170"

image37304.jpg
 
OP is OK with 1.060" OAL. Hornady suggests this for the XTP bullet. I guess I would take apart the seating die and clean it up real good. And develop a consistent action for the press; make every pull of the handle the same, the same pressure at the top, every time. If you aren't already, separate seating and "crimping" into two steps. Easier for a new reloader to control these operations if done separately. I have no use for an FCD, I use a plain old taper crimp die in the last station to remove the flare in the case; a "deflaring" operation, no crimping.

I disabled the auto-index on my Lee turret 10 days after I got it, some 18 years ago. I prefer hand indexing and I batch load so it works out perfectly for me...
 
Thanks guys! This information has given me the confidence to try these rounds out! I will make some changes to my setup in the future and do the marker crimp test before firing. I will update you with how the action cycles and these rounds work out.

Thanks again!
 
Just a little update on my first hand loads.

Got some time last night to try out the new rounds. Performed well. Compared with some 115gr FMJ the 124gr XTP kicked less but seemed to have enough power to get the job done. Accuracy seemed good comparatively, no crono but cycled the M&P just fine. Overall seemed like a decent mix.

Thanks again to all you more experienced guys for your input and recommendations! I will continue with the hand loading:)
 
From an old Lyman manual (the first one I grabbed)

9mm Luger
max overall length (with bullet)

1.169"

As a practical matter, max loaded length only matters when A) rounds are too long to work through the action (feed from the mag, chamber, AND eject loaded) or the bullet is entering the rifling.

If you are below the listed max, things should work fine in all guns. If you are above (and depending on how much) it may work ok in gun A and not in gun B,C, or E, etc.

I wouldn't sweat 0.01" difference in overall length, especially when you are running about 0.1" less than listed max length.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top