Help needed deciding on the ideal rifle…need your expertise!

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DPSproles

New member
OK, here is the situation and the details and I hope you all can help me decide on an ideal gun for this situation.

I am a long time pistol shooter and knife guy (and other high priced gadgets like flashlights and electronics.) My family and I are about to move back to TN (Rutherford County) onto a small "micro farm" with nothing but mega farms around us. We are in the county with very few neighbors around us.

I have an 11 year old son who is about to get a Ruger 10/22 for plinking and is a very good shot with whom I have done all the safety training, etc.

My next "long gun" I would like to meet multiple purposes and I am new to the scene.

Here are the jobs this gun needs to be able to do:
1. Small game disposal (coyote, fox, etc) as we will have small livestock. We plan on getting an out door herd dog, but this is a real issue in the area.
2. Able to do some longer range shooting for fun (have a friend who is a sniper and he wants me to get started in the concept of long range shooting)
3. Able to use the gun for 3-gun competitions in the near future Going to make this a non-realistic option based on some of the first responders...
4. Reliable, accessible and not extremely expensive gun or ammo.
5. Oh yeah, and might be able to be reloaded if I decide to go that direction
6. Could be used in the case of WW3 if needed. :roll eyes:

I look forward to your suggestions. When you recommend something to consider, can you please talk like I'm stupid. So, initials don't help me a bunch (I know AK and AR initials, but others are ones I am not familiar with.) Also, include the cartridge it shoots and why you would choose that cartridge over others.

Ones I have looked at are the FN FAL, AR-15, AKs, Saiga AK-style, Galil.

So, let the games begin and I thank you in advance for your help.

Sproles
 
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Looks to me that the issue of 3-gun competition is the control for your selection. Since that's not my area of expertise, I'll let somebody else talk about that.

Any centerfire can be reloaded. Me, being a cheapskate, I would look for major items such as the press, scales and dies at gunshows or Crag's List and maybe eBay. Some of my "good-used" gear wasn't new when I got it in 1950. Still works just fine. The new stuff is only 30 or 40 years old. :)
 
The only rifle that meets all criteria is a 20" barrel AR. Pick your brand, they all work relatively well.

Jimro
 
As Art says, 3-gun is the driver. You will be best off there with an AR.
If you get a good one it will also be accurate enough to long enough range to gratify your sniper buddy.
Econoball .223 will do for 3-gun, plinking, and rural home defense; you can buy or load match grade for careful target shooting, and hollowpoints for the varmints.
 
I will concure with the croud about an AR in 223 for most of your list. However the long range stuff may depend on you and your sniper friends idea of long range. The 223 is a great cartridge for targets out to 300 yards. Beyond that any wind will greatly affect the bullets. You may want a second gun in 243 win or 308 win for the longer range shooting. The 308 is more suited to very long range, closer to 1000 yards. If you will max out at 600 the 243 should be ok. Both are readily available and inexpensive to reload for (relatively speaking anyway). If you only have a 300 yard range I would stick with the AR in .223/5.56. Also if you get an AR get it chambered in 5.56. It will be able to shoot either 5.56 or .223. You can not safely fire 5.56 in a .223 chamber.
 
SO, if I took the 3-gun part out of it, what options would you put into the mix? That is one of those things that will be time permitting and right now that is few and far between. So, remove that from the list and let you imaginations fly.

Many thanks for the suggestions.

Sproles
 
Bolt action in 223 or 243 for the vermin and target duty and a 12 ga shotgun for HD. For the bolt gun any of these will be good, Rem 700, Win. 70, Weatherby Vangaurd or Howa 1500 (same action different name), CZ (any model) Thompson Center Venture or Icon (depends on budget), Ruger M77, and probably a few I am not thinking of right now. For the shotgun, Mossberg 500, Rem. 870, Browning BPS, all of them are pump actions. The sound of the action closing :eek:will probably be all you will need for most intruders (that is the second most well known sound in the world:D).
 
Let the Games Begin

No 3 gun then for your list I'd go with a Savage in 243/308 or maybe even .338 win Mag. All are cheap to reload for the reason I went win the 338 win mag is cheaper to load for the the Lapua mag. I can load for the 338 depending on bullet for about $1.00 to $1.25 a round. If I shoot the 300 Lapua's then cost goes up another 50 cents. You can load around 298 .223 with a pound of powder cost is about 45 to 60 cents a piece. The 308 is around 65 to 80 cents a piece depending on powder and bullets used. Much cheaper then new factory. Don't let folks talk you out of the Savage because there cheap yep the stocks are plastic so what I wouldn't want to spend a grand on a rifle to take it out and end up scratching it up then being mad about it plastic who cares. There is a world of different choices out there find what works for you and go from there.
 
Totally agree on the shot gun for HD. This would be in case of serious catastrophic failure of gov't, etc. Not likely, but arm yourselves while you can, right?

Anyway, I would prefer to stick to the semi auto options over bolt action, but will review all suggestions.

I am still becoming educated on rifle cartridges and their incredible varieties and differences. It can become a bit overwhelming and almost as complicated as trying to describe differences in wine varietals or beer. Holy cow!:eek:

Thanks for the info...

BTW - what is the most recognized sound in the world? :rolleyes:
 
Caliber still shakes out to .223.
The right .223 is a pretty good 600 yard rifle if you get the load right.
A Tikka T3 with 8" twist and 75 grain bullets will do a lot if you don't want an auto.
 
Personally, I didn't get the correlation to 3-gun, and semi-autos....

The OP mentioned long range target shooting, and most don't associate that with semi-auto's unless you're building a high-end AR-30. We have several .223's and shoot them regularly, but beyond a few hundred yards they are impractical, IMO, due to light bullet weight, low BC, and excessive wind drift in breezy conditions.

We just built an AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel, which could fit the bill for longer range capability in an AR-15 if semi is what you want...

One issue is that small game disposal generally would indicate smaller calibers, and long range shooting-true long range- is best suited to larger calibers, longer bullets, higher BC's for best results.

Two rifles will be your best bet for this, but life is sometimes a compromise...
 
Fnh fnar ,semi auto, bolt action accuracy, 20 round mags in .308. It's a bit expensive but would work great for your needs I think.
 
You're starting out. Get a 223. Cheap to shoot, and workable at long distance. As for the rifle type, the recommendations to get a bolt action are what I agree with. Simple to operate and simple to clean. Get a known-to-be-accurate rifle and some good optics, and you'll be shooting well in no time at all and at near minimum cost. I'm a Ruger and Sako guy mostly, but the Savage guys are worth listening to if you want a good shooting gun for small dollars. If you want a good shooting gun for bigger dollars, the options are many. Ask your sniper buddy what he thinks you need.
 
A 223 pushing Mk262 77gr ammunition is capable of putting lead on steel out to 800. Yes it has more wind drift than a 30 caliber, but ALL loads have wind drift. "flat shooting, wind bucking" is marketing hype.

Jimro
 
i would get a savage of what ever model you like in 223 and a good scope that you like vary good shooting guns and dependable
 
Yes it has more wind drift than a 30 caliber, but ALL loads have wind drift. "flat shooting, wind bucking" is marketing hype.
Click to expand...

Marketing hype?

Ballistics are founded in scientific fact, not marketing hype.
Like I said, sometimes shooting is a compromise. No question the .223 is a good "compromise" caliber.

I'll still put my money on the shooter with the "flat-shooting" .338 LM over the guy with .223 and his VLD bullet at 1000 yards in a 15 mph full value wind when it comes to hitting that 10" plate.

Even in your illustration, the 7 or 8 twist barrel required for the heavy match bullets is going to leave a more limited selection of hunting bullets available in that weight range.

I'm a big fan of the .223 round. It is still my opinion that it is a "compromise" round- capable, but not ideal- for long range target shooting.

To the OP,

I do agree that the .223 is where you should start.
It will take a while for you to work up to long range. The .223 will get you most of the way there, and if you decide you're really serious about long range when you get the experience under your belt- you'll probably want to leave the .223 for it's varmint role and get a dedicated stick for long range.
 
I think that an AR would suit your needs.

My favorites are the RRA line that is stainless steel barrels, 3/4" MOA (suits the long range need) and works for the 3 gun competition.

Price is a bit higher at $1100 or so depending on who you get it from.

Also handles the rest.

The one to look at are the Coyote Pursuit, ATH (one other I am forgetting).

I know you can get the ATH in 16 inch if you ask for it, though standard is 18 and that would suit the long range need better (splits the difference between 16 and 20).

1-8 twist so it splits the bullet need, should work well with the heavier 77 gr.
 
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