I'm wanting to get started in creating my milsurp collection. I plan on shooting these, but would like to have some collector value as well. Also note that I am a college student and can't drop large sums of money on a Nazi K98. Could you guys give me some ideas on what to look for, including "must haves"? I've also been wondering if the Yugo Mauser's and SKS's were worth collecting? Thanks!
Help me start a milsurp collection
- Thread starter tgtate
- Start date
Boogershooter
New member
Check out the thread on "starting a collection for my son". People on here have given us some pretty sound advice.
I think that a lot of guys that collect find a niche for a particular type of gun that really interests them and then build a collection of various types of the same rifle. The Mosin 91 variations are a good example. You could collect literally 100s of rifles in this category alone with all the Soviet, Finn, etc., varieties.
If you are like me and you want a variety, it gets harder, because you have to research each gun type to know what is good and what is not in each type of gun.
For rifles this is my list of what I either already have or or looking for. I try to find a really nice gun or a couple of guns in each category (matching numbers etc..), so it can get to be expensive and slow.
Mosin types: 91/30, PU Sniper, Finn, M38/44, etc.
M1 Garand
Mausers
- Yugo M48
- M24/47 and/or M24/52C
- CZ24
- Swedish 1896 and/or M38
- K98
- Argentine 1909, and/or M91
Swiss K31, K11, 1911, 96/11
SKS Chinese Yugo and Russian
Japanese Arisaka Type 99 and/or 38
Enfield 303 and Ishapore
You could easily add a bunch more to this list, but it gives you an idea of the more popular milsurp rifles out there. For a starter, I'd look for a Mosin or an SKS, because they are still some of the cheaper choices, and cheap and fun to shoot.
If you are like me and you want a variety, it gets harder, because you have to research each gun type to know what is good and what is not in each type of gun.
For rifles this is my list of what I either already have or or looking for. I try to find a really nice gun or a couple of guns in each category (matching numbers etc..), so it can get to be expensive and slow.
Mosin types: 91/30, PU Sniper, Finn, M38/44, etc.
M1 Garand
Mausers
- Yugo M48
- M24/47 and/or M24/52C
- CZ24
- Swedish 1896 and/or M38
- K98
- Argentine 1909, and/or M91
Swiss K31, K11, 1911, 96/11
SKS Chinese Yugo and Russian
Japanese Arisaka Type 99 and/or 38
Enfield 303 and Ishapore
You could easily add a bunch more to this list, but it gives you an idea of the more popular milsurp rifles out there. For a starter, I'd look for a Mosin or an SKS, because they are still some of the cheaper choices, and cheap and fun to shoot.
kilimanjaro
New member
In Mosin-Nagant 91/30's, look for preWWII years and workmanship.
1942-1945 are in the millions and ten cents to the dozen.
1942-1945 are in the millions and ten cents to the dozen.
"...wanting to get started in creating my milsurp collection..." Define "large sums of money" then go directly to the CMP for an M1 Rifle. Hoops to jump through, but you get a real M1 Rifle that has been checked and certified as safe to shoot for a starting price of $630USD. Better to go to $730 for a Service Grade though.
Start here. http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/eligibility-requirements/
Shoot the matches even if you don't have to. Shooting matches is great fun
and you'll meet some great people. Most of whom will let you shoot their rifle.
"...the Yugo Mauser's and SKS's were worth collecting?..." At this time, neither is a collector piece. The Zastava's, being commercial, never will be. Both are fun to shoot though.
Start here. http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/eligibility-requirements/
Shoot the matches even if you don't have to. Shooting matches is great fun
and you'll meet some great people. Most of whom will let you shoot their rifle.
"...the Yugo Mauser's and SKS's were worth collecting?..." At this time, neither is a collector piece. The Zastava's, being commercial, never will be. Both are fun to shoot though.
springer99
New member
If your collection wants to include US arms, then an M1 from the CMP is something you should really get sooner than later. The M1 carbines disappeared from their inventory about 3yrs ago and now the few remaining are being auctioned off at around 3times the orig. price. Now the supply of M1's seems to be getting pretty thin. All good things come to an end!!
First, you should get a M1 from the CMP.
Beyond that, you really should think about what you are interested in. A lot of people focus on WW2 era arms, and that is certainly a good direction to go, but it is not the only option, there are still quite a few WW1 era guns available, as well as guns that are from the WW2 era but not from any of the belligerents (such as Swedish and Swiss rifles).
Based on your budget comments, I expect you are probably looking for shootable examples, rather than museum quality pieces.
For a WW2 collection, you should probably start with:
M1 Garand from CMP
K98k (Russian capture is probably in your budget)
Enfield No4
Mosin Nagant. 91/30 will be least expensive
All of those are generally available, and ammo is not prohibitively expensive.
Arisaka T38 and T99 are also available, but they were never imported in the quantities of the other rifles, and a lot of them have been messed with over the years. Ammo is also harder to find, and usually more expensive.
Yugo rifles are usually in pretty good shape, The model 24s were refurbished starting 1948 to the m24/48, but the M48s are all post war. Yugoslavia also refurbished captured German K98k rifles.
Beyond that, you really should think about what you are interested in. A lot of people focus on WW2 era arms, and that is certainly a good direction to go, but it is not the only option, there are still quite a few WW1 era guns available, as well as guns that are from the WW2 era but not from any of the belligerents (such as Swedish and Swiss rifles).
Based on your budget comments, I expect you are probably looking for shootable examples, rather than museum quality pieces.
For a WW2 collection, you should probably start with:
M1 Garand from CMP
K98k (Russian capture is probably in your budget)
Enfield No4
Mosin Nagant. 91/30 will be least expensive
All of those are generally available, and ammo is not prohibitively expensive.
Arisaka T38 and T99 are also available, but they were never imported in the quantities of the other rifles, and a lot of them have been messed with over the years. Ammo is also harder to find, and usually more expensive.
Yugo rifles are usually in pretty good shape, The model 24s were refurbished starting 1948 to the m24/48, but the M48s are all post war. Yugoslavia also refurbished captured German K98k rifles.
This is a tough one, given prices for many these days.
I think no one can argue that the M1, while not cheap in comparison to many other choices, is an excellent choice. While I do believe the pricing for many milsurps is in bubble territory- this isn't one of them.
Have you considered gaining expertise in one particular area, and concentrating the collection towards that- as in, Mausers...Mosin-Nagants...SKS's, or even from one country, or one conflict?
JMO, but I think these days, with prices being what they are, more educated "cherry picking" is in order. There is a wealth of information on the web- decide what you want- learn about it. Want an SKS? Learn about Yugo vs. Russian vs. Chinese- what to look for in each. This will enable you to determine more accurately what a given rifle may be "worth" based on it's characteristics, compared to others. You can always decide to pay more for something- but at least you'll be doing so with full knowledge of same.
Once you've decided what you want, hit your local pawn shops, gun shows, internet sites (yes, including GB) because deals can still be had for the savvy buyer.
Some rifles have still remained "relatively" inexpensive- and not gained the interest/respect of the collecting community at large. Turk Mausers are a good example, as are some of the Yugo re-works.
I think that there will be a re-settling of this market based on ammunition non-availability. Shooting most of these is now relegated to handloaders, or factory ammunition that's on par with- or more expensive- than even modern .308, much less .223 or x39.
I think no one can argue that the M1, while not cheap in comparison to many other choices, is an excellent choice. While I do believe the pricing for many milsurps is in bubble territory- this isn't one of them.
Have you considered gaining expertise in one particular area, and concentrating the collection towards that- as in, Mausers...Mosin-Nagants...SKS's, or even from one country, or one conflict?
JMO, but I think these days, with prices being what they are, more educated "cherry picking" is in order. There is a wealth of information on the web- decide what you want- learn about it. Want an SKS? Learn about Yugo vs. Russian vs. Chinese- what to look for in each. This will enable you to determine more accurately what a given rifle may be "worth" based on it's characteristics, compared to others. You can always decide to pay more for something- but at least you'll be doing so with full knowledge of same.
Once you've decided what you want, hit your local pawn shops, gun shows, internet sites (yes, including GB) because deals can still be had for the savvy buyer.
Some rifles have still remained "relatively" inexpensive- and not gained the interest/respect of the collecting community at large. Turk Mausers are a good example, as are some of the Yugo re-works.
I think that there will be a re-settling of this market based on ammunition non-availability. Shooting most of these is now relegated to handloaders, or factory ammunition that's on par with- or more expensive- than even modern .308, much less .223 or x39.
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Dragonflydf
New member
it is hard to define what you want in your collection. Some want as many makers of K98s or Mosins they can find, or every version of a 1903, or US Military.
Let your passion take your collection where it wants to go and you will never regret it.
Buy what you can afford, then trade up if it is not the condition you want. In my case I love history and many times I buy something because it catches my eye, not because I was looking for it. Once I have it, I read all I can about it, the history of the piece as well as the era it is from.
I started with a M-1 Garand and Carbine, and now my collection covers over 150 years of history.
Let your passion take your collection where it wants to go and you will never regret it.
Buy what you can afford, then trade up if it is not the condition you want. In my case I love history and many times I buy something because it catches my eye, not because I was looking for it. Once I have it, I read all I can about it, the history of the piece as well as the era it is from.
I started with a M-1 Garand and Carbine, and now my collection covers over 150 years of history.
lewwallace
New member
WEBLEYS!!! Pawn shops and troll, troll, troll the net! They aren't getting any cheaper. You can get the MkIV in 38S&W and be a shooter. And don't overlook the Enfields. They are beginning to get alot of attention and before long will be commanding bigger money!!(buy now!)
Gunplummer
New member
Why? You seem to have no interest or knowledge of military weapons. If you are doing it to lay away a nest egg, it is a crap shoot going in blind.
Hey now...I thought buying at or near market tops was a sound investment strategy! I'm sure Yellen and Co. will step in, and keep milsurp prices from stabilizing or falling if that ever should happen
J/K...
But the quote is spot on, IMO. Buying "any old" rifle for investment is a roll of the dice these days. Sure, back when you could buy almost anything for $50-$200 it was a pretty sure bet. But, those days are over. Buying for investment- better do your research first as there's a LOT of overpriced junk out there. Buying for a collection is a different story, many KNOW they're overpaying, but do so to fill a hard-to-fill hole in a collection.
kilimanjaro
New member
Go ahead and get a Yugo Mauser and an SKS for a start.
Condition is everything. Spend what it costs to get a near-minty specimen, even if you're going to shoot it. If you can't treat them right or store them properly, then don't get the minty stuff, get a lesser grade.
Condition is everything. Spend what it costs to get a near-minty specimen, even if you're going to shoot it. If you can't treat them right or store them properly, then don't get the minty stuff, get a lesser grade.
