Help me interpret this gun law, WA St

M

mgdavis

New member
In the RCW there is a line that seems to give permission to conceal carry without a permit:
RCW 9.41.060 "Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:"
(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;
(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;
(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper;
Click to expand...

Am I reading correctly that I can (theroreticly) carry a concealed pistol while hiking/camping with no license? That seems to good to be true. Does it apply to someone under the age of 21?
Just so it's clear, I am not planning on actually carrying with no CPL, I'm turning 21 in May and don't want to do anything imprudent that would ruin my chance of getting that permit. This is just a curiosity.
 
If I'm reading it right, it doesn't say anything about carrying concealed. That part of the law pertains to open carry.
 
well, after reading the following RCW, which is the one that the RCW you asked about is an 'exception' to, I would say that it IS allowing concealed carry without a permit if the circumstances are met. I still would just get the CPL to be safe though. You may still get hassled/arrested anyway and have to fight in court, so better safe than sorry IMHO.

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.


[2003 c 53 § 28; 1997 c 200 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 3; 1961 c 124 § 4; 1935 c 172 § 5; RRS § 2516-5.]
 
Whoops, forgot to include the referenced section:
RCW 9.41.050

(1)(a): Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
Click to expand...

This is referring to the concealed carry of pistols, so the afore mentioned 9.41.060 is also refering to concealed carry of pistols.

edit: jrfoxx, you beat me to it.
 
It depends

As a practicing Washington attorney and former prosecutor, here's my take:

It depends. Under Washington law, no one under 21 may possess a pistol unless accompanied and supervised by a parent or guardian and only under limited circumstances.

Federal law, the code of federal regulations, prohibits the possession of firearms in national parks. The CFR also prohibits the discharge of firearms in the vicinity of "any populated or developed area."

The Federal law also prohibits firearms in all Federal buildings including post offices.

State and Federal Law prohibit firearms possession by anyone convicted of a felony. The Laudenburg Amendment enlarged this prohibition to anyone convicted of a crime involving domestic violence. A BATFE attorney has told me that the misdemeanor must involve a crime against a person meeting the definition of domestic violence. Still, consult an attorney to ensure you are legal. Federal and state law also prohibit firearm possession by anyone addicted to drugs, or who has been ajudicated insane, or is under indictment or out on release pending trial on any felony or DV crime.

Also, the right to carry a concealed pistol DOES NOT translate in the right to carry a pistol openly. If you do so in any populated area, you are likely to be arrested at gunpoint. The Seattle Police, for instance will arrest anyone doing this for unlawful display of a weapon.

On the other hand, if you are in the boonies hunting or fishing, not a criminal, a lunitic, a drug addict or a wife beater or a minor, you may be reasonably safe carrying a pistol openly in a holster.

Now for the disclosure: None of the foregoing should be considered legal advice. No attorney-client relationship exists and none should be implied. Carrying a firearm has certain legal implications and attendent risks. Said implications and risks are beyond the scope of this post. One should always consult competent legal counsel before electing to carry any firearm or dangerous weapon as there are over 22,000 weapons laws in the United States alone. While it is this author's opinion that most of them are superfluous and many are uncostitutional, my opinion is NOT shared by most courts.

Don't you just love attorneys?
 
Andersencs, while I appreciate your input as a practicing attorney in the state, you didn't quite answer the question as asked. It was specifically directed at concealed carry with no permit required. You semi-answered a question about open carry. Could you give me a answer that conforms to my question more closely?
 
Re the plain language of the statute

The plain language of the statute prohibits the carry of a concealed weapon without a license except under certain exceptions. The statute does nothing to regulate open carry. also, structurally, you can see that this section is contained under a general heading of concealed carry. Still it depends on the other factors I mentioned in my previous post and the same disclaimer.

It also goes without saying that said firearm should not be drawn or displayed unless the person carrying it is in imminent and reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury or at an approved firing range.
 
Right. However I am already aware of the lack of open carry legislature in Washington State. I am just curious about whether or not I would be prosecuted if I was found to be carrying a concealed pistol by a law enforcement officer while hiking/camping on state or otherwise public land.

Edit: remove your mental picture of mgdavis during the senario and insert "a 21 year old male with no criminal record, and not the holder of a CCW permit."
 
"I am just curious about whether or not I would be prosecuted if I was found to be carrying a concealed pistol by a law enforcement officer while hiking/camping on state or otherwise public land."

Answer "yes", the intrep by juges has been this RCW applies to open carry in homes and businesses. Public lands depends on the type, state park prohibit carry period, open lands do not but still have to have a CWP for concealed. I have sat through enough court cases to know....

Ya the State Park in Federal Way Wa that has the notice posted at the entrance.
 
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State parks do not prohibit carry in this state that I am aware of. A search of packing.org reveals no such restriction, and I do not recall seeing such in previous researching of the RCW's. Do you have a reference for that statement?
 
Question on 2a:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Is this "a person shall not carry ... unless the person has a license to carry a conceal pistol", or is this "a person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle" without a license?

Try it with different inflections and you get two different meanings.

Does this subsection of law only pertain to vehicle transport, or does it pertain to the bearing of arms in general? It seems (from the subpoints (i), (ii) and (iii)) to only pertain to vehicle transport. I find it very odd that it would be flat-out illegal to not be able to carry openly when out in the wilderness.

It's probably a whole other section of law dealing with the general carrying of weapons in "public".
 
They probably allowed for concealed carry while hunting due to the excessive rain. I would put my handgun or rifle under a rain jacket if hunting in WA.

I went backpacking in the Olympic mountains for several days once and got absolutely dumped on. I lived in western washington state for 4 years. After that one time, I only went backpacking in the cascades. Drier, but still wet.

All those backpacking trips made me to decide to get a gun. It took 2 runins with bears and 2 with mountain lions. I guess I am a slow learner.;)
 
:p :p I do most of my backpacking in the Olympics, it can get a little wet on occasion ;). If it's real wet, you could roll a (non-lubricated) condom over your muzzle.
I really asked this question just to see if I was reading into it the right way. As far as vehicles go, you can have an unloaded pistol in a car with out a permit, to have it loaded in a vehicle, you need a permit. Open carry requires no permit. I was just asking about the concealed carry during outdoor activity with no permit exception.
 
Couldn't have said it any better myself

My wife bought me an Aimpoint Comp M2 for Christmas for my trusty CAR 15. The Aimpoint finally came today and the A.R.M.S. mount should arrive on Monday. Even if it keeps raining, I'll be one wet smiling SOB come next Saturday.:)
 
Trying to bring the thread back on target before I have to go for the night; any more interpretations of 9.41.060 (8)?
 
One last caveat

One last caveat, if you are in the Olympics, be sure to stay clear of the national park when you are armed. I'll be the first to take a phraze for Monty Python, "it tis a silly law" but they do enforce it.
 
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