Good day folks ! I have one more budgeted firearm purchase planned while my work OT is at "robust" levels finishing out 2015. Next year looks like no OT. That being said I have a budgeted amount of about $1K for a 1911. Here's my unique situation. I had a Colt's Government model 70 back in the late 80's but had to sell it as my new wife at the time 25 years ago was anti gun. I already have a Glock G35 , and a complete G22 upper assembly in .40 s&w I love the glocks but they are more lightweight, LEO carry simplicity shooters that are difficult for me to control the hard snappy recoil. I'm more of a casual target precision shooter so that being said i'm looking for a heavy steel framed 1911. I handload and i'm deeply vested into loading .40 S&W ( I have about 4K rounds stockpiled between unloaded reload components and bulk loaded ammo) so i'm having a hard look at purchasing a 1911 match pistol chambered for .40 S&W, problem is those choices is few and far between. I like the Sig 1911 Match Elite Stainless , new seems right at my budget , and I like the custom STI Trojan which are slightly above my budget but might get lucky and score one used. Then of course there is always the decision to just go with the purists's choice of buying .45 caliber and tooling up to reload .45 caliber. However with respect to loading .45 all would not be that bad as I also own a 460 s&w mag revolver which also uses .45 cal bullets so I do have a lot of 45 cal bullets inventoried but they are more expensive "high velocity" accuracy type bullets and not something I would want to be target plinking through an ACP type handgun. So you can see my unique perplexing buying situation. I always try to make my gun purchases practical and versatile buying decision with handloading as a factor. Would like your thoughts and opinions ! Thanks in advance !
Help me decide a unique "1911" buying decision
- Thread starter Road_Clam
- Start date
.Aguila Blanca
Staff
There must be close to 100 manufacturers and/or private labelers offering 1911s today, but you've already found out that very few offer a 1911 in .40 S&W. IMHO, obsessing about .40 S&W and thereby severely limiting your choice of gun maker is not the right approach. Just buy a Colt Series 70 (current production or used), buy a set of dies for .45 Auto and a box of 230-grain bullets from Berrys, and call it good.
The model O1970A1CS in blue finish has an MSRP of $899 and should sell for less. The same gun in stainless, model O1070A1CS, lists for $979.
The model O1970A1CS in blue finish has an MSRP of $899 and should sell for less. The same gun in stainless, model O1070A1CS, lists for $979.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Actually..no, I don't think it's unique or perplexing.
You have .40 caliber guns currently. You have some .45 caliber bullets "inventoried currently."
It will cost under $100 to get the equipment (loading dies, shell holder, etc.) needed to reload .45.
.40 caliber uses small pistol primers and .45 uses large pistol primers. If you don't currently reload a gun that uses large primers, then you'll have to buy whatever is required for your reloading system to handle large primers.
If you don't want to have to setup to handle .45 ACP, including large primers, then the .40 caliber is better choice.
Bullets: Believe it or not, lead bullets out of a .45 can be high accuracy - you just have to work up the correct bullet / powder combination.
Lead bullets for a .45 are not expensive - there must be 50 companies making them. Lead bullets range from 6 to 10 cents each depending upon manufacturer, coatings, etc. .40 caliber bullets cost about the same amount.
Reloading cost difference is really not a factor as it's nearly a wash between .40 caliber and .45ACP. If the cost of 1-2 cents a round is a make-or-break deal for you, then the answer is obvious isn't it? You should buy a .40 caliber.
The questions only you can answer:
1. Do I want to setup to load .45 ACP?
2. Do I want to limit my gun choices by staying with .40 caliber in a 1911?
Answer those two questions, and you'll have your answer.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Winchester NT (non-toxic) .45 ACP ammo uses small pistol primers. Buy and shoot a couple of boxes of those and you can then reload using the same small pistol primers you use for .40 S&W.
You COULD buy a "cheaper" 1911, such as RIA ( I own one and it's totally dependable. I have ABUSED it with "load testing" trying to reach the heavy bullet/high velocity cloud). Ties up about 600 of your 1K, and use the remainder to buy the stuff to load 3000 45 rounds.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
mikejonestkd
New member
The whole 1911 world opens up to you once you discard the .40 S&W cartridge...
Set up costs for a .45 ACP are pretty minimal and components are available everywhere.
Seem like a no brainer to me.....get a .45!!
Set up costs for a .45 ACP are pretty minimal and components are available everywhere.
Seem like a no brainer to me.....get a .45!!
Jim Watson
New member
I looked around on Benos for you.
If you just must have a .40; the Sig has the "features" and style, the Trojan Just Works, it has a very good reputation.
You might have to load .40s differently for the long action of a 1911... or you might not.
If you just must have a .40; the Sig has the "features" and style, the Trojan Just Works, it has a very good reputation.
You might have to load .40s differently for the long action of a 1911... or you might not.
1911's in .40 S&W are not a common bird...you can find them easier now, however than a few years ago. An option that some have tried is to find a 1911 in 9mm and buy and fit a .40 S&W barrel to it. The slide cutout is just about the same size and it does work for some. Check with a good gunsmith for his thoughts on the project and have him do the fitting...it'll save you $ in the end.
That said, I've got an original Colt 1911 Gold Cup Elite in .40 S&W that I picked up nearly 20 years ago for the princely sum of $750...Colt had a 250 pistol production run of them and I managed to find one...it's a collector's piece now.
That gun was a cypher to me then and now. With 50 years of 1911 experience and the same amount of reloading time, I could not get it to shoot as well as my .45's of the same quality. Accuracy was a common problem when the .40 first came out, in most pistols, and especially so in the 1911. Just why this was so, remains a mystery, but poor quality ammunition was part of the problem. Since then, ammunition has improved, but in my experience, the round still does not possess the innate accuracy potential of the .45 ACP. In the 1911, it's no big secret on how to get a .45 to shoot extremely well. My two Rugers, off the shelf, compare well with a half dozen Colts I've owned and tinkered with over the years. Groups with good grade handloads with either make will consistently produce 1-1/2" gps at 25 yds from rest.
Were I you, I'd use the .40 ammunition in storage in your .40's, and buy the best .45 ACP 1911 I could afford. As a recommendation, I'd suggest one of the Rugers. Both of the steel framed ones are excellent (I own both as this is written), but if you ever intend to carry it, the light weight version of the CMD (same as Colt's ubiquitous original Commander) with it's alloy frame and 4.25" bbl. would be my choice.
I currently have both the Colt and Ruger steel versions and parts are completely interchangeable. I also have Colt manufactured slide and barrel assemblies in 9mm, .22 LR, and .38 Super. All of which work as well on my Ruger CMD as they do on the Colt. And the Ruger sports some add'l enhancements that are lacking on the Colt: bumped grip safety, match barrel, flared mag well, checkered mainspring housing, and Novak sights to name a few.
They're truly first rate 1911's...if you can get by the .40 S&W caliber hang up, it's the .45 I'd recommend. Prices have come down on the Rugers as of late, and right now Cabelas has them for about $750. I've seen them as low as $675.
Here's a pic of the 4-caliber Ruger CMD with it's Colt and Marvel slide/bbl. assemblies.
Best regards, and HTH's Rod
That said, I've got an original Colt 1911 Gold Cup Elite in .40 S&W that I picked up nearly 20 years ago for the princely sum of $750...Colt had a 250 pistol production run of them and I managed to find one...it's a collector's piece now.
That gun was a cypher to me then and now. With 50 years of 1911 experience and the same amount of reloading time, I could not get it to shoot as well as my .45's of the same quality. Accuracy was a common problem when the .40 first came out, in most pistols, and especially so in the 1911. Just why this was so, remains a mystery, but poor quality ammunition was part of the problem. Since then, ammunition has improved, but in my experience, the round still does not possess the innate accuracy potential of the .45 ACP. In the 1911, it's no big secret on how to get a .45 to shoot extremely well. My two Rugers, off the shelf, compare well with a half dozen Colts I've owned and tinkered with over the years. Groups with good grade handloads with either make will consistently produce 1-1/2" gps at 25 yds from rest.
Were I you, I'd use the .40 ammunition in storage in your .40's, and buy the best .45 ACP 1911 I could afford. As a recommendation, I'd suggest one of the Rugers. Both of the steel framed ones are excellent (I own both as this is written), but if you ever intend to carry it, the light weight version of the CMD (same as Colt's ubiquitous original Commander) with it's alloy frame and 4.25" bbl. would be my choice.
I currently have both the Colt and Ruger steel versions and parts are completely interchangeable. I also have Colt manufactured slide and barrel assemblies in 9mm, .22 LR, and .38 Super. All of which work as well on my Ruger CMD as they do on the Colt. And the Ruger sports some add'l enhancements that are lacking on the Colt: bumped grip safety, match barrel, flared mag well, checkered mainspring housing, and Novak sights to name a few.
They're truly first rate 1911's...if you can get by the .40 S&W caliber hang up, it's the .45 I'd recommend. Prices have come down on the Rugers as of late, and right now Cabelas has them for about $750. I've seen them as low as $675.
Here's a pic of the 4-caliber Ruger CMD with it's Colt and Marvel slide/bbl. assemblies.
Best regards, and HTH's Rod
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heres an interesting one in your price range. The website is a bit hard to understand, I am not sure if it is in stock or not. This is the RIA 1911 "Pro-Match"
http://www.ammoandarmsstore.com/shop/firearms/armscor-rock-island-1911-a2-fs-pro-match-40-sw-51738/
they also sell the 1911 Pro-Match "Ultra"
https://staging-us.armscor.com/products/pro-match-ultra-hc-40sw
here is the "tactical"
http://www.impactguns.com/armscor-p...sw-5in-series-70-type-firing-system-comb.aspx
A1 type in 40, much cheaper
http://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/rock-island/51710-m1911a1-pistol-40sw-5in-8rd-parkerized/
so may 10mm 1911's out there, wouldn't that be a very simple swap?
http://www.ammoandarmsstore.com/shop/firearms/armscor-rock-island-1911-a2-fs-pro-match-40-sw-51738/
they also sell the 1911 Pro-Match "Ultra"
https://staging-us.armscor.com/products/pro-match-ultra-hc-40sw
here is the "tactical"
http://www.impactguns.com/armscor-p...sw-5in-series-70-type-firing-system-comb.aspx
A1 type in 40, much cheaper
http://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/rock-island/51710-m1911a1-pistol-40sw-5in-8rd-parkerized/
so may 10mm 1911's out there, wouldn't that be a very simple swap?
Thanks for all the input, i'm STILL on the fence as to which way to go....I just can't draw a clear path. I have to admit i'm leaning a bit towards .45 just because a .40 match 1911 is going to be expensive I doubt I will find a nice one used... a match 1911 in .45 ton's of availability...
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The .40 is my favorite Handgun caliber too. I have 3 .40's of different sizes and also have about 5,000 rounds worth of components probably 2,000 of which are loaded and ready. I also have 2 1911's in .45 that I love. Dies for the .45 can be bought under $50 for the full set, the primers are large pistol where .40 is small pistol. Brass for a .45 is plentiful. I pick most of mine up off the floor at the range. The powder is the same. Pretty much any powder you'll find a .40 recipe for you'll find plenty of .45 recipes too. The .45 bullets are a little more but we're talking maybe an extra $2-$4 per 100 for target rounds and maybe an extra $5 for 500 bullets if you use cast lead.
The reloading expense to load .45's too is minimal and the choices for .45 1911's are pretty much unlimited and range from $400 to over $5,000 and everything in between. Plus, and this is just my opinion, a 1911 is just supposed to be a .45 ACP. In the $1,000 range you mentioned you can get many fine 1911's.
The reloading expense to load .45's too is minimal and the choices for .45 1911's are pretty much unlimited and range from $400 to over $5,000 and everything in between. Plus, and this is just my opinion, a 1911 is just supposed to be a .45 ACP. In the $1,000 range you mentioned you can get many fine 1911's.