help me choose a scope

S

snowman748

New member
I'm thinking about scoping my Ruger GSR (Gunsite Scout Rifle)

I'm not sure if I want to go the Traditional or Scout scope way just yet. I've researched and researched but I'm still torn.

another problem is almost ALL the scout scopes carry a nice price tag that I really don't want to pay for something I may or may not like...

The only real experience I've had with optics are Old cheap Bushnell sportviews, some Vortex red dots (that I really like) and most recently a Redfield Revenge 2-7x34 I picked up for my Marlin 1895 45-70...

I've found a Leapers UTG 2-7x32 handgun scope that I think will work as a scout scope (it seems to have great reviews) and only costs $121...

I'm torn though because I can also pick up a Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x40 for $129, a Nikon Buckmasters II 3-9x40 for $130 or a Redfield Revenge 3-9x42 for $142...

is the Leapers worth the gamble to see if I like having a scout scope over a traditional or should I just stick to traditional?

note this is going on a 5.56/223 chambered rifle so recoil wont be an issue...
 
Purpose of the rifle?
The whole Scout Rifle concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. No military would every issue a bolt action rifle to the Recce guys.
Anyway, no handgun scopes on rifles. Recoil will shake 'em to pieces. Even with .223.
Wouldn't go with a variable on what amounts to a carbine. Fixed low magnification would be faster.
 
purpose of the rifle is to have fun and possibly hunt under 100 yards...

I personally think Cooper's scout idea is pretty cool, flawed in some ways but cool...

I wasn't really asking to start a discussion about Cooper's ideas though but more over about help picking a scope for the purpose I stated above...

Why no handgun scope on a rifle? From what I understand handgun scopes were rated for VERY hot revolver rounds (example: the 500 S&W), I don't understand how a scope rated for that abuse wouldn't hold up to 223?

The reason I was thinking about a variable instead of a fixed is for possible hunting use...
 
You don't have to spend a fortune, but there are very few scopes with a MSRP much under $200 worth bringing home. And you'll pay a lot more for an extended eye relief scout scope. There are a lot in the $200-$300 range that will be as much scope as you ever need. You get a little nicer scope in the $300-$500 range, but I could live with a lot of sub-$250 scopes.

I'd mount a low powered scope conventionally and forget the scout scopes. A 1-4X20 is extremely fast for close work on 1X and on 4X gives enough magnification to shoot out to 300ish yards. A 2-7X32 gives a bit more magnification for longer range work. On 2X it is still fairly fast up close, but can't compare with a true 1X scope.

You could use a 3-9X40 scope, but for that rifle is just more scope than needed. 3X is almost too much magnification for close work and 9X more than needed.

Some I'd recommend:

http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-ShotgunMuzzleloader-Scope-P51851.aspx

http://swfa.com/Redfield-2-7x33-Revolution-Rifle-Scope-P44466.aspx

http://swfa.com/Leupold-2-7x33-VX-1-Riflescope-P51823.aspx

The whole Scout Rifle concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. No military would every issue a bolt action rifle to the Recce guys.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand the concept. It was never meant to be a military rifle. The basic concept is sound if you understand the use. I just don't like the forward mounted scope. Cooper only chose it in order to use stripper clips for faster reloading. Not a factor with a detachable magazine. Might as well take advantage of the better optics mounted conventionally.
 
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The whole Scout Rifle concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. No military would every issue a bolt action rifle to the Recce guys.
Click to expand...

In other news...Canadian Rangers will be allowed to keep their Lee Enfields while the Canadian military phases in the proposed replacement, the Tika T3 Combact Tactical Rifle. http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...rs-will-be-allowed-to-keep-their-lee-enfields

While arming scouts in the US Army, or other military with an expeditionary mission, is a non-starter, arming the Canadian Rangers with a bolt action rifle makes a huge amount of sense. Considering that they are "scouts" in the traditional sense of "local guides" and not the "deep reconnaissance" version that came about with the rise of maneuver centric warfare.

Although the Wehrmacht did create a scout rifle K98 for issue to scouts, so it isn't exactly Cooper had an original concept.

But just like the Canadian Rangers and their bolt action rifles being a niche force, the scout rifle is a bit of a niche piece of kit. There is nothing particularly wrong about it as a hunting arm, but nothing particularly right about it as a military arm either.

As far as optics go, get a Leupold fixed power 2x20 pistol scope, a Swift fixed 4x32 pistol scope, or a Nikon 2.5-8x28 with BDC reticle pistol scope.

The fixed power scopes should be more than enough for general hunting, the Nikon would be a better option if you wanted to try your hand at snap shots at long range.

Jimro
 
" Anyway, no handgun scopes on rifles. Recoil will shake 'em to pieces. Even with .223. "


Have to disagree. I have an old Yugo Mauser, which I shortened into a carbine (1.5 lbs lighter than the original). Chambered in the original 8mm Mauser cartridge. I have a 2 x 20 Nikon HAND GUN scope on it, mounted forward of the receiver, "scout rifle" style.

I load the cartridges for this rifle to approx. 30/30 velocity/ pressure, which with 170 grain bullets still produces WAY more recoil than a .223....yet the scope is fine. Several thousand rounds fine. Holds zero (at 200 yards) perfectly, which is as far as I can shoot with 2X with reasonable accuracy.

Don't mean to split hairs, but the problem with blanket statements like the one referenced above is that they often are simply not true. Perhaps SOME hand gun scopes won't handle rifle cartridge recoil, but that is NOT true of ALL of them. If accepted at face value, such statements only serve to mislead people and potentially limit their options unnecessarily.

Just sayin'..........
 
I'm very frugal !!!

While shopping, take a look at the "Sniper" or CenterPoint brands. They are relatively new to me but have given me very good performance. So far, they take a beating. Tactical, illuminated reticles. Red, Green and sometimes Blue.

Be Safe !!!
 
While shopping, take a look at the "Sniper" or CenterPoint brands.
Click to expand...

Do you have the 1-4x20? I like the simple reticle and the Hammers equivalent, on which I've read positive comments elsewhere.

If you have the 1-4x20, how do you like it?
 
A friend had me try his Ruger Scout, two mag's worth. Forward-mount Leupold. I'm not at all used to that mounting, but I had no trouble for tight groups off the bench rest.

But, I've been using conventionally-mounted scopes since 65 years ago.

Practicality? At Gunsite during Cooper's tenure, the Scout rifles were regular winners in the "shoot and scoot" competitions because of the faster acquisition of the targets. Practice enables competent use of what to many is a new system.

FWIW, I know from experience that 3X is adequate to hit Bambi exactly where I wanted at 350 yards. And one MOA at the bench rest is no big deal.

Cooper wrote that he preferred to take game at no more than 300 yards if at all possible. Farther out? Stalk closer. His idea for the Scout rifle certainly could achieve a clean 300-yard kill.
 
With scopes you get what you pay for, i.e., a new higher priced scope is truly better quality than a new lower priced scope. The GSR is not cheap and I wouldn't put a cheap scope on it. I would prefer a low power variable rifle scope such as 1-4x. I would also prefer a traditional scope mounted over the action rather than super-long eye relief scope mounted over the barrel (maybe because that is what I've used for over 60 years.)
 
There are a bunch of brands I'd take a gamble on. Leapers isn't one if them.

Check out SWFA, Sightron, Vortex, Burris.
 
The price of the Nikon XR 2x20 isn't much more than the UTG/Leapers (at Amazon). I'm looking to get the Nikon for my scout rifle project. The only bad reviews I've found were guys complaining that the advertised EER isn't as "extended" as Nikon advertises: real world max of only 18". Those same "bad" reviews state the scopes have excellent clarity and they're good scopes, just not enough EER for them. For my scout rifle, I only need about 10" of eye relief.
 
May I suggest the Burris Scout scope. The Burris Scout scope's list price is $399, but you can find it online for $225 --- So make sure you shop around.
 
scopes

I buy a fair number of scopes on Ebay, and if you watch, you can save good money on various name brands.

The old saw of "you get what you pay for" is especially true regards optics and scopes thinks me. I'm running more Leupolds than anything, nearly all of them bought used from Ebay. Two Burris's, and a budget Nikon, that came on a used rifle. I gave up on Tasco, Simmons, and the cheaper Bushnells a long time ago, and have a drawer full of them that are worthless. I have had good luck so far with a newer Bushnell Elite 10x, mounted on a .22. I'd run from Leapers, Hammers, and the like, as if it were the plague.

Regards scoutscopes/scout rifles. Seems it's love/ hate. It is indeed a different system, and the small "window" seems to bother a lot of folks accustomed to conventional arrangements. There is also a issue with backlit scoutscopes in low light. I like mine, but many don't. A quality low power variable will allow sighting as most are accustomed and eliminate a learning curve and may be the safe way to go. Note that some rifles are not easily scoped conventionally. I'm currently trolling for a scoutscope for a Garand and possibly an AK, both equiped with Ultimak rails. Why....I can't see the darn iron sights like I used too!

I've never heard of a good pistol scope being beat up on rifles. I've no reason not to believe that a Leupold/Burris/Nikon 2x or 4x pistol, that would sustain .44 mag revolver recoil, would not survive use on a scout rifle, if the eye relief works out. I'm considering the very thing on the above projects.
 
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