Help Indentitfly This Revolver

[kwhi43]

I bought this used in 1965 for 17.00. A hundred balls came with it. I have shot
it about two hundread times. Shoots very good. Got it out today and was looking
at just wondering . It has no marks except the "PN" on the cylinder. It is a 31
caliber. Very light trigger pull and locks up tight. The scene on the cylinder is of
a stage coach being attacked by Indians. Back in the 60's we used to call these
Baby Dragoon's. So can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[noelf2]

May be a defarbed F.I.E. imported baby dragoon. If that's a brass frame, I had one just like it, gave it to Doc Hoy as it was a basket case and thought he might be able to use the parts. Is there a serial number on the butt?

 

[kwhi43]

No number, and not de-farbed.

 

[noelf2]

Frame looks defarbed, well worn, or has some cast imperfections. Just saying. Never saw one without a number or some kind of stamp on the butt. Maybe a kit gun..??

edit: I think F.I.E. imported baby dragoons in 1970's, so won't be that. Doubt you'll find out much about it. You posted the same thing on THR back in 2008 and didn't get far either.

 

[kwhi43]

Oh sorry, I don't remember. I hate to repete muself. Some days I don't remember me.

 

[SDC]

The "PN" is an Italian proof, but you'll probably need to take some clear, close-up pictures to get any better than that.

 

[noelf2]

The "PN" is an Italian proof, but you'll probably need to take some clear, close-up pictures to get any better than that.

PN stands for polvere nera, Italian for black powder.

 

[James K]

I don't know what anyone may mean by "defarbed" but that gun 1) is a repro and 2) has had the living c**p buffed out of it. It may function OK and shoot, but it basically has no real value except as a paperweight. (Yes, repros do have some collector value themselves, especially the older ones.)

Jim

 

[Fingers McGee]

See my response over on The High Road

 

[Jim Watson]

Defarb means to remove unsightly foreign proof marks and trademarks from reproduction firearms, commonly to enhance their appearance in reenactments. Period finishes or accelerated wear are applied in the better examples. In the worse examples, fake American trademarks are applied.

 

[kwhi43]

James K

I and my daughter had lots of fun shooting the paper weight. I've had it for
over 40 years. I bet most of your guns are just paper weights also. I really
don't care what it is worth as it's not for sale. I will give it to my daughter as
it is the first gun she ever fired. She was 5 at the time.

 

[swathdiver]

Great little guns, lots of fun to shoot! It's going from one good home to another someday it seems too.

ASM or an FIE/EIG import if I were to venture a guess. Someone on another forum has one just like it, maybe Tim?

 

[gyvel]

I bought one of these back in the later 1960s from a Miami toy store chain called Lionel's Playworld. If I recall, it was an F.I.E. import, and cost a princely $26.00. It was definitely a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[Doc Hoy]

The one that Noel sent to me….

Was a real tack driver.

The first three shots I fired from it went into a four inch dia. circle (two hand hold) at fifteen yards.

I know that is not up to KWHI's standards ( ;o) ) but for me thats purdy good.

I agree with KWHI in his point that a given revolver or a given "anything" for that matter has many different values. But the most realistic value is set by the person who owns it.

 

[sltm1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the roll engraving the one found on 1849 Colts?

 

[Rigmarol]

I have my grandfather's old squirrel rifle. .22 single shot.

If anyone else came across it they'd think it were just another tomato stake.

But it will be the last gun I ever give up if I had to sell them all to feed the grandkids.

My son has called dibs on it but I've made it plain it is for HIS son. But I'll let him teach his son with it LOL.

Value? Hell yeah.
Price? impossible to determine.

 

[Doc Hoy]

I have a revolver

that is a Chinese knock-off of a Smith and Wesson Police. The barrel is loose, the crane falls out when you swing the cylinder out. It doesn't stay cocked. Moving the hammer does not advance the cylinder.

My father brought it back from China in 1945 after trading a pack of cigarettes for it.

I also have an Iver Johnson .32 double action which was probably bought new for about 4.00 in about 1920. It is still fully functional and the nickel is pretty good. No way it is worth more than about forty bucks.

But it belonged to my Aunt who died at age 99 about six years ago. She carried it in her purse wherever she went including to a bar where she was swilling Gin and tonic with my Dad about two weeks before she crossed over to the other side.

Go ahead and call these revolvers paperweights.

 

[pohill]

I recently sold an ASM BP revolver that had no barrel or frame markings, and it had never been defarbed. Under the loading lever were the faint letters "ASM".
Great looking gun.

 

[Bill Akins]

kwhi43, there does appear to be more markings than just the PN you mentioned on your cylinder. In your 4th picture of your first post, (the pic of the bottom of the revolver where you can see the serial number), look just above the serial number and there appears to be an "A" marking. Not sure what significance that has, but it is a marking that doesn't appear to be part of the serial number. ASM? (Armi San Marcos?), ASP? (Armi San Palo?)

I tried increasing the contrast in photoshop to give a better view of that "A" and you can see that in my attachment link, along with an arrow pointing to it.

I can tell by the screw holes of the frame being dished out on their edges, that the frame has been heavily buffed at some time. The screws aren't buffed to match the screw holes, so obviously the screws were removed before it was heavily buffed, hence the dished out edges of the screw holes from heavy buffing. So it may indeed have been "defarbed" as someone else suggested. But again, check out that "A" marking above the serial number I mentioned and showed in my attachment, it may be a clue.

Also, have you checked for markings under the loading lever?

Also, check out my second attachment. I also decreased the brightness and increased the contrast to try and see what those two buffed out markings are on the right side of your frame. Check them with a magnifying glass and try to get the light just right so you can see any vestige of detail that might be left there in spite of the heavy buffing. They are heavily buffed out and pretty much destroyed, but under the mag glass with the lighting right, you might maybe get a clue. Something about that forward most mark, brings to mind a CVA (Connecticut Valley Arms) marking, but that's just a gut feel guess on my part. On the most forward positioned mark, it's very hard to make out and even looks a bit like a mushroom cloud who's "stem" of the "cloud" looks slightly to the left of the upper "cloud" instead of the "stem" being centered directly under the "cloud". Of course both of them could also just be heavy dings and I'm reading too much into the forward most marking.


.

 

[Hawg]

Its an ASM. Only four manufacturers made .31's. Colt, Uberti, Palmetto and ASM. Its obviously not a Colt. Palmetto didn't make baby dragoons and Uberti used oval cylinder stops so that leaves ASM.