Help Identifying Percussion Conversion 1/2 Scale musket

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daveatjohnx

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I have no idea what it is,,,

I have no idea what it is,,,
But I do have an additional question.

Has that remaining part of the frizzen(?) been converted into a type of safety?

It looks like it could rotate down and prevent the hammer from striking the percussion cap.

Was that common in flintlock to percussion cap conversions?

Aarond

.
 
Interesting

Has that remaining part of the frizzen(?) been converted into a type of safety
Click to expand...
I find this post of special interest and my SWAG in this is that indeed it's an original safety. That is not to saw that this did not start out as a flinter. If indeed it was converted, the safety was part of the conversion. Seems like added work but there just might be a good reason. A shooter could walk around with his musket capped and ready. ..... :confused:

I have an old Snaphaunce lock that I use as a demo, during our training classes. Have used it for about five years and decided it was time to clean, I discovered that it too has a mechanical safety. .... :)

Be Safe !!!
 
My semi-educated guess would be that the device is not only a safety, but a clever way to keep the cap from falling off.
 
I could get the photos of the lock downloaded but nothing else. Do you have a photo of the entire musket - overall length, etc.

You refer to it as a 1/2 scale 69 caliber? Is it 69 caliber? if it was a true half scale, a 59 caliber would not be 69 . . . it would be half of that bore or around a 334 - 36 caliber smoothbore.

Are you sure this is a "1/2" scale or is it a "musketoon"?
 
The device is called a cap guard, or nipple guard. Here is some information on the idea and a different variation

http://www.google.com/patents/US19213

If the gun is actually a half scale model, it was probably made either as a salesman's sample or a patent model. A third possibility is that it was made for the son of a high-ranking military officer or political figure associated with the military.

Jim
 
First, I don't think it's a conversion. Judging by the lock, lock plate, and barrel, it appears that it was made as a percussion gun.

As Jim says, this is a cap guard lock. Not particularly common, and primarily used in Europe, I think, but not used particularly often.

It could be a salesman's sample, it could be a patent sample, or I'm wondering if it could be a cadet rifle.
 
I am a bit confused about the "1/2 scale" description. Is the whole gun, including the lock, 1/2 scale? Or is only the barrel cut down? If the former, a cadet musket would be unlikely - the gun would be too small for the average cadet age and usually cadet muskets were simply shortened versions of the standard musket.

Jim
 
A true half scale would have a short and thin buttstock, a thin foreend, a scaled down lock, etc. It would be a "toy" musket, not suitable for any adult or late teenager. From the look of the lock and the area around it, I doubt that the gun is truly half scale, but we have to wait on the OP for better pictures or more information.

Jim
 
Many Thanks for the Help

I appreciate all the help; and hope these photos will help. The musket is stamped with serial number 1 on all parts including the barrel and stock.

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/da...ersion Musket_zpsdfb88fzz.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04906_zpshshlmnmt.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04904_zpskgfpuhuc.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04903_zpsbhlpsarr.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04902_zpswm079x5x.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04901_zpseinknb3q.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04900_zps8u6wisb1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04899_zpslgr3dtwa.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04898_zpshtpzlehg.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7

http://s264.photobucket.com/user/daveatjohnx/media/Musket/DSC04897_zpsigmpxlqx.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8

The white on the end of the barrel is from dried adhesive tape and I have not yet cleaned the gun. Hope all the photos help.
 
Thanks for the additional photos. It appears that the upper barrel band is missing?''This looks more like a "musketoon" to me - for some reason, it says "sea service" to e but I am not sure - probably because of the brass furniture. And perhaps so because of the nipple cover. It's a nice piece.
 
It is military and I believe its Austrian. I do think it was converted from flint. The barrel hasn't been cut as it still has the bayonet lug.
 
I will vote for Belgian, possibly made for the Swiss. It has a short barrel (probably original, given the bayonet lug), but certainly is not a half scale model. I am willing to be educated, but I know of no military use of a cap guard. Possibly the inventor of the system just wanted to make a trial/demonstration piece and looked around for an old milsurp to try it on.

It could be a reworked flintlock or the "frizzen" spring and screw could have been added by whoever did the other work; it is an obvious way to get the cap guard to work.

I am afraid that it may very well remain another of the many mysteries to be found in the gun collecting hobby, but it is interesting. Thanks for showing it to us, daveatjohnx.

Jim
 
Found it! It's a Prussian borderguard gun UM 1840. They were specifically designed with a safety to be carried loaded (unlike military weapons that were typically only loaded when needed). DWJ 7/15 has a lengthy article on the weapon.
 
Did some more research. According to this site, there is only ONE known gun of this type. As their picture us different than the one in the DWJ, that's not quite true, but it seems to be an extremely rare gun.

UB03_3.jpg


Germans btw are not too enamored with originality, so a professional restore and replacement of the missing front band might be appropriate.
 
I really wish to thank everyone who has helped me with this one. I've been collecting and selling for almost 60 years and followed my Dad who started in 1927. This was the first musket like this I had ever seen.

Thanks,
Dave
 
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