Help choosing a SAA

B

bnjtown

Inactive
Hey Everyone,

New to the forum here although I have been a longtime reader.

I am really wanting a single action pistol. Have just always thought they were neat and fun to shoot.

I know that i want a 357 but have know idea what brand best fits my needs.

I have looked at many of the "clones" from EAA, Cimarron, Ulberti, etc

Which of these is the best for the buck. This is not something i will shoot often and do desire and nice looking piece. However when i do shoot it i want it to work well. I also want to be able to carry 6 shots safely. Possibly would look at getting some engraving done locally with my daughters birthday etc on it so when she is old enough she would appreciate it.

That being said I do not want to break the bank. I would like to keep it under 600 if that is possible.

Also, this may be a dumb question, i see "cowboy loads" for sale and that makes me wonder if i can safely shoot just plain factory 357 and 38 rounds out of it. I do not have a reloading system for pistol cartridges, only shotgun shells...

I know its kinda a multipart post but hopefully i can get some help.

Thanks!
 
To carry six you'll need to go with a Ruger vaquero or Berette stampede I've owned both and their both exellent. The stampede probably wins in the looks deparment. Good luck
 
+1 on the Vaquero

Also, if a revolver is made for modern smokeless ammo, you should be safe with cowboy action loads. But as always, check the manufacturer's documentation or contact their customer service to be sure.

A Vaquero listed for 357 Mag should be safe for cowboy loads, I think I've seen a number of folks post that's what they use in the competitions. Again, just find what the manufacturer says.

(I'm trying to avoid fanboyism on Rugers, but they are definitely durable guns.)
 
I'll be Ruger's fanboy then, get a Vaquero or Blackhawk if you want adjustable sights. It will shoot full house .357 for you lifetime and your daughter's. They are excellent, reliable, accurate firearms.
 
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Ruger, safe to carry 6 rounds and will shoot any 357 factory ammo as well as 38sp. If you want the traditional look go with the Ruger Vaquero but if you want the adjustable sights the Ruger Blackhawk is the way to go. :)

Cowboy loads are just light loads and would be safe in any 357.
 
I note that the OP asked about SAA's... not generic single action revolvers. That essentially rules out the Rugers, Blackhawks, etc... they are not SAA's.

Easy stuff first: Cowboy action loads are "barely loads", just the lowest power stuff that will shoot a target at close range. Of course any of the .357 SAA's will safely shoot any of the available .357 or .38 cartridges. You can stick anything in them that will fit and blast away.


Subject to endless dabate is what to buy: Really... as a new shooter of these, you will have a ball with any of them, and it's unlikely that your first will be your last. Advice is to just get any old one and enjoy it. If you want to upgrade, buy another. Buy a used one if you can and then when you sell it later you do not take the depreciation. If you have taken care of your first one you can resell it and the cost of ownership is the difference between what you paid for it and what you sold it for. It's going to be peanuts.

There are a number of excellent SAA clones being made, many of the good ones are actually Italian Ubertis with a variety of names stamped on them. Cimarron, etc... all privately labeled Uberti's. They are sold in a range of finish levels, any of them will be good shooters. Buy what you can affford and enjoy it. To me, the more original to the Colt design the better, and any of the Uberti made ones are perfectly fine. As a range gun, you can forget the old nonsense about not loading them with six... load six, SHOOT THEM NOW and repeat as needed. You're not going to be riding a horse with a loaded sixgun in a holster for months on end. Plinking guns usually are loaded for about, oh... 30 seconds before being shot. Don't drop it! (Have you EVER dropped a loaded revolver?) :rolleyes:

Tradition is part of the enjoyment of these. To me, traditional means "5 clicks when pulling back the hammer". Four just does not do it, Ruger lovers notwithstanding. It's just not right.


Naturally some internet pedants will disagree... but I don't think that anyone who is actually out shooting these a lot will do so. Here's an example of "Internet Advice" from someone who obviously has never shot any of this stuff:

"A Vaquero listed for 357 Mag should be safe for cowboy loads"

Uhh..... Cowboy loads are loaded to about 25% of the power of a standard .357 load.
That's sure some expert advice, Pard.... ever actually shoot one? ;)



Willie

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Good advice, Thanks!

I agree that i will prolly enjoy any of them. Just like to over think stuff sometimes...

I am a huge beretta fan so i will check out the stampede's a little closer.
But would be happy with about any brand as long as i get a quality fun gun with the look i fancy as well.

I wish we had a gun shop in my area that actually carried a decent amount of Single actions. Closest place is about an hour away. Most likely what I order will have to be online so that is what makes the decision so tough.
 
And guess who builds the Stampedes? Uberti... which is owned by Beretta.

If you are interested in SAA's, then (know it yet or not) you are also interested (or very soon will be!) in cap and ball revolvers. Do you know that the grip frame of a SAA interchanges with a Colt 1860 Army (or it's clones)? Direct ancestor. A nice Uberti 1860 would provide hours of fun at very low cost, never mind no FFL hassle and make a perfect companion to a SAA.

Come visit the rest of the Cowpokes down in the black powder and cowboy action shooting forum here. Scroll down and find it. You'll get hooked.



Willie

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People use terms differently. Some folks say "SAA" to refer to any single action revolver. To me, "SAA" means a Colt Single Action Army and nothing else.

From the context of your post it seems like you are looking for a revolver in the "style" of a SAA. In other words, a "Colt clone" or a replica of a Colt. A true "clone" will have fixed sights, a half-cock hammer loading system and a hammer mounted firing pin. I don't think any one makes a clone (by my definition) with the firing pin on the hammer AND a transfer bar safety.

OK, as to the ability to load and carry six rounds safely. To me that means a transfer bar ignition. I would not trust any other system.

Putting aside adjustable sight revolvers, and rimfire revolvers, the single action revolvers with transfer bar ignitions currently being made are the Ruger New Vaquero, the Beretta Stampede, the Heritage Big Bore (parts by Pietta in Italy, finish work by Heritage in Florida) and the EAA Bounty Hunter (made in Germany, slightly larger than a Colt).

The raison d'etre for factory "cowboy loads" is the SASS rules that mandate lead bullets with pistol velocities under 1000 fps. If your revolver is chambered in .357 Magnum it should digest any factory .38 Special or .357 Magnum load you can find.

In my neck of the woods, the Rugers are pretty easy to find (although often overpriced). I rarely see the others in retail stores; in fact, I've never seen a Heritage Big Bore for sale. You can always order from GunBroker or one of the online dealers but of course you are stuck with what you get that way.

You might try visiting a cowboy action match in your area. That would give you a chance to see lots of different single actions and get firsthand ratings from the people who shoot them. For what it's worth, you will likely see 10 Rugers to any one of the others.
 
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If you want a good clone, a Uberti is a good option. Even have an 18 barrel version. The clones are pretty cool, I honestly think evEn RG's are great. I love mine.
But, even though they aren't technically a SAA clone, I'm a big Ruger Blackhawk fan.
 
"To carry six you'll need to go with a Ruger vaquero or Berette stampede I've owned both and their both exellent. The stampede probably wins in the looks deparment. Good luck "

So I would go Ruger


But

If I was only interested in SAS I would get a Colt or Colt Clone.

A 357Mag will shoot standard 357Mag and 38SPL so no worries.

When you hear about Cowboy loads it is normally Lead, low Velocity rounds.

You see that in 45 Colt mostly where you have standard pressure loads for Colt SA and Clones AND P+ loads for Ruger Blackhawks, but not Ruger new Vaquero


Again this is not an issue with any gun chambered in 357 Mag

Snake
 
Crunchy Frong said
"I don't think any one makes a clone (by my definition) with the firing pin on the hammer."

You had me 'til this statement. Are you sure you meant that? MOST Ubertis, Piettas and USFAs would meet your definition--unless I missed something, enitely possible. Most USFAs have slightly larger cylinders, but are otherwise pretty close.

If the OP just meant an "SAA like" gun in the broadest sense (size, general feel and overall appearance). I'd +1 the Ruger choice, which by the way--in terms of current and recent years' production--is the New Vaquero (cap N), not just "Vaquero," occasional special distributor-only runs of the old/original/large frame Vaquero notwithstanding.
Ruger tutorial:
Distinctions are not being made in this thread but "need" to be. It's true, Ruger itself--along with its dealers--inexplicably for the past two years has been calling in it's descriptive literture and ads all its current midframe fixed sights just "Vaquero," but they are more correctly "New Vaqueros" (big N) by definition since 2005 or so. And...not "new model Vaquero" as many call them (all Ruger SAs since 73 with the transfer bar are New Model Rugers...so the term just confuses and is not necessary, but most folks know what you mean anyway even if "improper" terminology. Still, maybe newER model, if you absolutely must say "model." :). Ideally, it's just "New Vaquero" and it says so on the frame (of .357s and .45s). If you say, "do you have a New Vaquero," and the vendor says "yes,"..ask what it says on the frame. (See the .44 Sp exception below).

One anomaly is the .44 Special--also inexplicably, it says just "Vaquero" on the frame, but be assured it's the midframe "New Vaquero." Otherwise, a gun marked just "Vaquero" is the large frame model, and btw, not needed for the .357, though some still like--but increasingly a minority. With either version, I'd get a 4-5/8" (5.5" absolute max) to keep the heft down and the balance "better," what with those relatively small holes, and especially being all steel like any gun with "Vaquero" in the name.

SO, if you see a NIB "Vaquero" advertised or at a store, it's a good bet these days it's the smaller ."midframe" New Vaquero. If the vendor doesn't know the distinction (more common than you'd think) ask what it says on the frame (regardless used or new), especially if .357 or .45. Voila. (Again, factory .44 Special is easy once you've got it down that ALL are the smaller midframes NVs, regardless what's on the frame).

Another reason--among the Rugers--to get the smaller, midframe New Vaquero is that it has an "reverse indexing pawl" which aligns the chambers "correctly"--like a Colt or SAA clone--for loading/emptying. The old/original/large "Vaquero" doesn't, but unless you're watchful instead over-travels, requiring you to move on to the next chamber. Earth shattering? Perhaps not, but an irritant to some, especially if speed is an issue. An aftermarket "free-spin" pawl eliminates this overtravel problem but as it's name suggests does not stop at any chamber at all on its own. A good or bad thing depending on your preference.

Both large and small (midframe) are great guns, but there are differences. Important to some, not others. Especially in 45, many prefer the larger Vaquero for its ability to digest virtually any load--including "hot," "magnum level,"Ruger only" loads. But, contrary to popular misconceptoon, the New Vaquero can safely shoot virtually any store-bought .45 load that's not designated "Ruger only.". Lastly, if you want a .44 Magnum -- it's easy, it come (came)only in the one size version, the large Vaquero.

Other distinctions:
New Vaqueros have thinner gripframes/backstraps and accompanying much slimmer factory stocks (panels). If too slim for you, the above is correctible for most by aftermarket/custom grips, most of which are not as slim as factory. The old/large Vaquero's overall profile, viewed from the side and back, is slightly different in addition to being "larger." Again, a difference important to some and not others...but grips are a very personal thing--especially on Rugers. Most folks are in one camp or the other when it comes to grips and especially gripframes. (On the Colts and Colt clones, mnot so much so--most folks eiter like or are neutral.) Gripframe swaps from one model to another are possible, just not super common. People just usually get the overall gun that suits them to begin with, and dial n new grips to adjust that aspect (if at all) to their liking.

Most[g] New Vaqueros have a relatively high, backswept hammer versus the old/original/large Vaquero's standard, more forward-oriented short spur (we've talking non Bisleys here). Exceptions--for new guns--are the Montado, a special NV model with short barrel and Super Blackhawk (SBH) profile hammer (but it's own distinctive checkering), and the relatively uncommon "SASS" NV models, which also come with the lower profile SBH hammer. People can always change hammers out of course, especially on Rugers a popular thing to do, so the above is not a hard and fast rule if buying used. Some like the standard (non Montado/non-SBH) hammer, many do not. Because of the above, relatively easy swaps, not a reason to not get a NV if you're one that doesnt. It's rare but occasionally you'll find an old/large Vaquero with a NV hammer swapped in, and slightly more common the other way around. SBH (and similar Montado) hammer swaps into other models are very popular.

Easy :)
 
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The Ruger NEW Vaquero is very different from the Vaquero. The latter was built on a 44Magnum-class oversize frame and grip. The NewVaq is much closer in feel and handling to a post-WW2 Colt SAA - very, very close and completely holster-compatible for example.

If you graft a SuperBlackhawk lower hammer on the NewVaq you get a lower hammer feel very similar to a pre-WW2 Colt SAA - which were made on entirely different tooling that was lost during WW2.

The Ubertis, Berettas and Piettas all cloned the post-war Colts. A few Uberti and Pietta models are shipping with lower hammers pretty close to the SuperBlackhawk type, because SASS legalized use of the SBH "or similar" hammers in main match competition about...what, 2 or 3 years ago, right?

Anyways. With the NewVaq, the only real variance from Colt/Italian/USFA practice is that you don't have to put the hammer in half-cock to unload/reload a Ruger. With the hammer down, open the loading gate - which freezes the action while freeing up the cylinder. Ruger's system is therefore safer and faster than the original action - and easier to modify. The Rugers can be converted to a half-cock setup fairly easily - Ron Powers' drop-in hammer and trigger parts are the fastest way and give you a top-end action job as well. You can also convert a Ruger to "free spin" - on opening the loading gate the cylinder will spin both ways, silently if you want...also known as the "cowboy ninja reload drill" as it can be done silently :).

You can get WAY, way more modification parts for the Rugers. You can graft in bits from other Ruger models or the aftermarket is enormous. "FrankenRugers" abound :). You can take a NewVaq357, ream the original cylinder to 41Magnum, swap in a barrel off a 41Mag Blackhawk and it'll work just fine. If you're into doing weird-science mods, Ruger is your ticket.
 
Jim March speaks the truth as usual! I've got both Uberti (Cimarron) and Ruger, as well as USFA and one recent-year "4th" (late 3rd) Gen Colt, the gen-u-wine SAA frankly a "just because" purchase and lifetime wish for a nice example of the prancing horse...but it hasn't disappointed. I'd handled Colts for years, but wanted one all my own at least once and finally got one for myself as a pre-retiremement present :)

All of the above are outstanding guns, IMO, for their own reasons. Nothing beats the snick nick (snick snick) of the Colt and clones, especially when finely tuned, and there is an inexplicable "feel" to them that's special. I also like the little touches like the "blackpowder" cylinder bevel put on most clones--reminiscent of the "old west" Colt doesn't even do now, not since 1941 or so, even on their "BP" optioned guns that I can tell. (Ruger's NV bevel is very modest, almost imperceptible, and only on the edge, not flutes). I also like the Colt and clones color case hardening (CCH) treatment--real or fake-- something also Ruger no longer does (since the Vaquero and early NVs). You can always send your Ruger off to Doug Turnbull, which I'd like to do for at least one of my NVs, but that's an added expense.

OTOH for me it's the Rugers--both large and small (mid) frame--that get used the most, and "worried" about the least, especially as "field" guns--camping and tromping. The Beretta's transfer bar mechanism's little bits are said--by some--to not stand up as well to the "abuse" of continuous CAS use. If you don't plan on that kind of heavy service, but still want something closer to the Colt design than Ruger, the Stampede's a way to go...especially if--like the Ruger--you want to safely shoot the full six. That's notwithstanding one poster's suggestion otherwise (that the other non-transfer bar'd Colt pattern guns be carried EVER with six), but I respectfully disagree. Yes, I have witnessed a drop of a fully loaded gun at a range (not me, and also fortunately no discharge). You may say that was an idiot or an exception, but both abound out there, even if the latter seems a contradiction in terms! The best safety may (supposed to) be between the ears, but some folks need or want more.

Added pic for comparison--Recent-year Colt and older Ruger New Vaquero.
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Sorry for the sun flash on the Ruger NV's hammer on this quick photo that does justice to neither gun - but the bright hammer it does (unintentionally!) highlight how backswept even comparing to the Colt! - one aspect I wished they had hadn't tried to re-invent (thus my others sport Montado or SBH hammers). Even so, to me they're remarkably close to the Colt, top. Same overall look, size and general feel, a bit more apparent heft as Rugers always seem to be (different gauge or type metal?). This is an early NV with the faux "color case" treatment. The Colt is certainly better in this area, but I think Ruger did an otherwise pretty good job immitating the Colt superficially, with different but arguably more robust innards. I think I'm in the minority out there, preferring even a faux CCH treatment to none on these fixed sight Rugers.
 
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You could also be a traditionalist and load 5. I believe the proper procedure is, load 1, skip 1, load 4.

I have a Colt scout (k-series) and I do enjoy it. I can plink all day, cheap.

I am not a fan of Rugers in any form, so will not comment on the single actions.
 
"You could also be a traditionalist and load 5. I believe the proper procedure is, load 1, skip 1, load 4."


Which works on Colts and Clones as they are all loaded from half-cock. The last part of the procedure after you load the last 4 is to fully cock the hammer and then lower it onto the empty chamber that will be indexed under the hammer after you do the above.

Rugers are not SAA's... not even close. Let's call them "stand-off scale" copies. From a few feet away they look close... but they are not SAA's.

Clones... well let's give them the benefit of the doubt. They are LOTS closer to Colt's. Interchangable parts with Colts are a good hint that they are "pretty close" copies in fact ... :rolleyes:

Or you can always buy a Colt... really, they are not that much more if you are sensible in what you pick.



Willie

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