help a flatlander... those dots or hash marks on the top part of a crosshair

M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
what are they for ???

if it's mildots, or hashes, are they only for scaling the size of the target, or is there a shooting situation for example, in the mountains, that you would need to hold "under" enough to use them to place your shots...

in my situation, I don't need the dots or hashes on the top, & find they clutter the sight picture... was just curious if shooters in other areas use them for shot placement ???
 
I guess depending upon your zero you could use them as hold unders. They make reticules without the vertical stadia.
 
I once had a .22 rifle that I zerod at 50 yards to the second mildot above the crosshairs. Mostly I was shooting 200-600 yards with a .22lr and wanted more hold over references for the long shots. I cant see any other reason to have an upper dot or mark.
 
The answer to your question can and will vary *tremendously*-widely, depending upon exactly what scope you have, with what reticle, from what maker. There are a bazillion different "systems"; some more gimmicky than others.

Generally speaking, there are two tasks that some people use reticles for - ranging and dope. First, ranging - get a laser rangefinder; voila - don't need a busy reticle (at least for this reason). Doesn't work very well anyway in my opinion, depending upon the height of an animal's torso or width of a human torso, etc. Why NOT use a laser? They're cheap and they work in most all circumstances.

Second, doping: Three ways to dope: Clicks, holds using hashes/dots, or holds without hashes/dots (Kentucky doping). If you use the first or third of these methods (clicks or kentucky doping), you don't need anything on your reticle except just that one center aiming point. So if you use a laser rangefinder and thus don't use a reticle to range, the only time you may want a busy reticle is to use hashes or dots to mark your holds for doping (holdover and hold-left-or-right).

Actually, there's a 4th way to dope - and that is, DON'T (don't dope) -just use MPBR and if the target is out of the MPBR for either windage or elevation, don't shoot.

I prefer MPBR for all hunting rifles, and using clicks (come-ups from 200 yd zero - and come-overs for wind), not holds - neither holding with, NOR holding without, hashes/dots/grids - for varminters and "tactical" / interdiction rigs. Thus, since I use a laser rangefinder, I don't want ANY gizmos on my reticles, ever! .... Just a simple crosshair or in the case of a Trijicon accupoint, a triangle on a post.

I recommend this method to others (MPBR for hunters; clicks for others when you have more time to adjust). But, nothing wrong with any way; whatever works for you to make the hit. You can get as complicated as HORUS or simple as a single crosshair. There's literally dozens of different ways to do things.

Most scope makers worth their salt will change out the reticle you have for the one you want, for a small fee, if you send it to them. So if it does nothing but confuse the situation, call the maker up and say "How much for a plain old duplex reticle if I send this to you?".
 
Last edited:
I really doubt they are for "hold under".

I'd like to know what kind of scope it is (brand and model) chances are you can go to their web site and find out if they are MOA or MIL Dot markings, either can be used for range estimation.

They can and are used for quick follow up shots. Let say you fire the first shot and notice the impact is say, two hash marks above the target. Simply move to the 2nd hash mark below the cross hair and fire again.

Works the same way for the horizontal hash marks. You notice the impact of the first shot is 2 left, then use the second on the right.

Horizontal hash marks also help with favors, IF YOU KNOW THE measurements of the marks.

An example: Lets say it's a Mil Dot scope. You know a MIL is 3.6 inches at 100 yards, 7.2 at 200, etc etc. Lets say you estimate the wind and it requires you to hold 72 inches right at 1000 yards, simple, 2 Mils is 72 inches @ 1000 yards so hold two miles over.

Works the same way for MOA scopes. I have one with 2 MOA hash marks. Using the 72 inch hold above, I'd use 3.5 hash marks to favor for the wind.

Anyway I doubt the upper hash marks are for HOLD UNDER. Most people sight their rifles a 100 yards, use the marks for range estimation and adjust, or if using a MPBR to determine if the target is within the range of their zero, or if aiming at the center of the vital zone, to make sure you're with in range where the impact wont be too high or low, taking it out of the vital area.
 
thanks for the comments guys... I understand the ranging portion... was just curious if the upper dots were ever used for shot placement...

I'd think even a mildot reticle would benifit by a thin top crosshair, keeping the lower & horizontal dots for ranging, hold over & windage... ranging could be done with the dots on the lower portion, & eliminating the dots on the top bar would offer a clearer sight picture
 
eliminating the dots on the top bar would offer a clearer sight picture
Click to expand...
It would make the reticle less useful. If you were dialed in at 550 and a target popped up at 100, you could get a quick shot using the reticle w/o needing to adjust turrets.
 
thanks... that's what I was looking for... some reason that you would use the top marks for shot placement...

targets "popping up" aren't necessarily military... could easily be prairie dogs or ??? it's been many years since I went P doggie shooting... never had as nice a scope, or as many reticle options then, as we do today...

back then, my "premier" prairie dog scope was was a 6-20X plex reticle Simmons :o
 
some reason that you would use the top marks for shot placement
Click to expand...

Less practicable, but interesting: Place chemlights (different colors) around a steel target (or multiple targets). Record targets, range and holds off the chemlights. Go do something else (eat supper, chores, ...) and come back after dark. Now the fun part! Practice using the reticle and/or manipulating turrets in the dark. Chemlight is the aiming point, but you're using the reticle or turret adjustments to put rds on target.

Edit:
could easily be prairie dogs or ???
Click to expand...
chupacabra.
 
Last edited:
I do not know your scope or your reticle.I can describe a reason I set up a rifle for hold under.

I was going hunting with a 1903A4 Springfield clone that has a 2.5 X Lyman Alaskan on it.The reticle is a post with a 4 MOA wide top.

I was satisfied prone with a sling and cheating with my backpack I shot a couple of less than claybird size 3 shot groups at the 350 yd max of the range.

Based on Nightforce software in a Dell palm pilot,I came up with this:



Range Card
Range
(y) Velocity
(fps) Energy
(ft-lbs) Elevation
(inches) Windage
(inches) TOF
(s)
100 2781 2885 6.22 0.37 0.10
150 2699 2718 8.43 0.97 0.16
200 2618 2558 9.45 1.87 0.22
250 2539 2406 9.19 3.08 0.27
300 2462 2261 7.59 4.60 0.33
350 2385 2123 4.56 6.47 0.40
400 2310 1992 0.00 8.68 0.46
450 2237 1867 -6.19 11.26 0.52
500 2165 1748 -14.12 14.23 0.59
550 2094 1636 -23.90 17.60 0.66
600 2024 1529 -35.66 21.39 0.74

OK,it did not cut/paste too well,but column 4 is elevation in inches,not MOA.Column 5 is windage in inches.

This is for a 400 yd zero.Had I sighted in closer,like 200,I would be raising that fat post up to cover my target,and my eyeball would get crazy.

But note,out to 350 yds,I had to only make minor hold adjustment,like 3 in max,to just making a 6 oclock hold on the lower edge of the sternum.

Also note,at 400 yds,that 4 MOA post tip,taken to the edge for windage,would be right there at 400 yds for 10 mph.If I used that windage at 300,.the error would be+ 1.4 in.

For what I was doing,I had what I needed to hit heart/lung to 400 yds.

It worked at 300.Dead antelope.

I don't think Ineed to squeeze more ot of a 2.5 X scope on game.

If your scope is a typical variable,it would be real hard to work with,but for a fixed power,The trick is to match the hashmarks to your trajectory.You might need a 300 or 500 yd zero for the center cross hair.

I do not prefer busy reticles after trying a couple,(Rapid 800 and the Springfield Armory)too fine,takes too much concentration,and they disappear in poor light.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top