heavy hard cast in 444 Marlin

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oldscot3

New member
I posted a similar query on the Marlin forum and while I'm waiting I thought I might ask here as well...

I'm looking at Matt's Bullets 325gr. WFN gas checks. They appear to have the crimp groove properly located but since they have a large metplat I'm wondering if they will chamber alright. I know the OAL will allow cycling but I've heard it said, (haven't verified it myself) that Marlins have a short lead. Has anyone here loaded these, or a (very) similar wide flat nose lead bullet? I thought if it was close I might be able to trim my brass or use the shorter Hornady cases that came with Flex tips.
 
I really can't say whether or not that bullet will work. I haven't used it.

It's also difficult to tell, just with a photo, whether or not that nose will play nicely.

If the major nose diameter is 0.424" or smaller, you should be okay. But I would expect hard chambering if: A) it's 0.425" or larger and you have a "Ballard" rifled barrel; or B) it's .427" or larger and you have a Micro-Groove barrel.
As you've heard, standard .444 Marlin chambers do have insanely short throats (0.045-0.055" in my measurements). So nose diameter is a big deal, even right in front of the crimp groove.

If it were me, I'd order a box and see how 2-3 dummies worked out (more than one, because the bullets likely came from 2-3 different molds and 4-12 different cavities).
Then, for me, the worst-case scenario means I run them in .44 Mag, instead.


Do keep in mind, if your rifle is a Marlin or an H&R, that groove diameter of your barrel is likely to be 0.431" to 0.432". There's a very good chance that those bullets will cause ridiculous leading and will require frequent cleaning to maintain any semblance of decent accuracy.

And another Marlin-specific handicap...
Some wide meplat bullets (especially at or over 2.550" COAL) won't feed through the loading gate of Model 444s or modified Model 336s without some minor reshaping of the loading port (and/or the inside front of the receiver). The wide meplat contacts the far side of the magazine tube while the rim is wedged against the loading gate, and the middle of the cartridge is simultaneously stuck against the magazine tube port in the front of the receiver. With those three points of contact, the cartridges go no further.


I'd be more worried that Marlin's slow 1 in 38" twist won't stabalize them.
Click to expand...
1:38" twist barrels will do just fine with 325s (WFNs in particular), so long as max velocity is maintained. Go easy on them, and they'll shoot like crap. But push them like you mean it, and 1:38" barrels can run up to 350-360 gr bullets (barring a problem with that particular barrel).

Even so... He didn't say what he was using.
There are as many (maybe more) 1:20", 1:24", 1:26", and 1:28" barrels out there as there are pre-'98 Marlins with 1:38" Micro-Groove barrels.
 
My rifle is the Ballard rifled 1:20. You think it might lead even with gas checks?

The nose length is .34" while the metplat diameter is supposed to be .36". If they'll sell me some samples and I can assure they'll feed and chamber, they ought to be just the ticket for the tough stuff.
 
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Yep, if it has deep grooves, I think it will.

If the gas check was sized to .430" with the bullet, and the bases are good and flat, the gas check is just as likely to fail to obturate as the rest of the bullet.

It's worth a shot, if you really like the design. Unless you cast your own, the only way to find "the one" is to try a bunch of different designs from different companies.


And, your barrel might not fit the average. It may have a better groove diameter.
I have one, myself, that's .4245" bore / .428" groove. I was quite happy to find that out, when I slugged it. (And the others are: 0.427/0.4315 (Ballard), and 0.428/0.431 (MG).)
 
After more research, and as per Frankenmauser's advise, it appears that my larger issue will be the sizing diameter of those lead bullets. I need .432" I think, not .430" for best results. There are some suppliers that will size them per your request but then I would be paying jacketed bullet prices.

I think I'm going to try some 300 gr. Sierras and postpone my lead bullet trial. I have a nice cannelure forming tool to allow proper oal and those bullets are available, properly constructed and not too expensive.

Thanks guys for the guidance.
 
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