Heavy Barrels, Unertl Scopes

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When did things like heavy barrels, glass bedding, free floating etc start to become more common? Also how popular were Unertl scopes for target shooters during the 1930's and 40s or was it mostly just iron's back then?
 
Seat of the pants,non expert answer:

Folks preferred precise,clean tight wood to steel bedding on their bolt rifles in the 60's.Winchester introduced the new M-70 in 1964.I think it came free floated.That,and the push feed bolt turned a LOT of folks to buy Remingtons.

I'm saying free-float was not initially popular.

Glass bedding? There was Micro-bed in little toothpaste tubes.That was probably the one.I think it was more often used to spot bed a tang or recoil lug,or fix/repair.
I would guess Brownell's Accraglas was 60's?
Early on,for most folks,it seemed an option when something was wrong,but skilled ,accurate wood/steel fit was most desired.
I think the benchrest crowd advance those techs more in the 70's and later.

Once again,seat of the pants,Lyman Target Spots and Unertls were used on somesniper rifles WW2.And there were a few crazy woodchuck hunters putting them on single shots.

Post WW2 the p-17 and Springfield were built into "Bull Guns" that might wear the big scope.
I think Lyman and Unertl were popular as varmint hunting became more popular.Most early varmint cartridges were rimmed,best for single shots and lever guns.Heavy barrels have been around forever.The Civil war saw heavy barreled,malcomb type scope,sniper rifles.

I'd guess Winchester changed things with the M-70 in .220 Swift.And wildcatters started necking everything up and down and burning Hogdon powder.

Scopes were pretty expensive,specialized items ,and viewed with some skepticism for the rigors of hunting...till the Lyman Alaskan and some Weavers Stevens,Kohlmorgen,etc scopes caught on.

Most folks went with a Lyman or Redfield receiver peep.


I don't know when,maybe 60's? Folks figured out barrel mounted scopes did not shoot as well as receiver mounted ones.

Or maybe Harry Pope did.

But maybe Douglas and Obermeyer and Schilen helped raise the common man's access to accuracy,as did Sierra and Sisk,etc bullets.

I suppose it all came together,as folks tried to wring a little more out od each gain.
 
Certainly as early as the 1900-1910 period scopes were used by Schuetzen or "Free Rifle" competitors on their single shot, cast bullet, rifles, such as Ballard, Winchester, Stevens, etc. These scopes were externally adjustable similar to the Unertl. I personally prefer the Fecker scope on my schuetzen rifle due to the ease of parallax adjustment.

Stock to metal fitment has always been a key ingredient in accuracy, but glass bedding per se is a fairly recent innovation. GI's would sometimes use matchbook covers to bed their Garand rifles, the Soviets would use various materials on their Nagant sniper rifles.
 
When you mention the Lyman Alaskan changing things up, I know some of those were used on 1903a4's, were those superior to the weaver 330c?
 
The Lyman Alaskan was superior to the Weaver 330.
I don't think many if any A4s were deployed with them, though; came along too late.

Most target shooting of the pre-WWII era was done with iron sights, being that the Army and NRA were in cahoots and the purpose was to develop riflemen.

You could not pick up a gunzine of the pre internet era without reading about varmint hunting with accurate rifles and big scopes.

Benchrest shooting as we know it came along after the war, but there were early efforts going back to the slug guns of the 19th century and cast bullet breechloaders and breech/muzzleloaders like the Rowland Pope rifle that set a record that held up for 50 years. And you have to have a good scope for that.

By the time the Sharps Rifle Co. folded in 1881, they were selling 25% of their rifles with factory installed scope sights.

Glass bedding is a creature of the 60s and after, but everybody knew the importance of good bedding, especially after the bolt actions took over. Usually done by careful wood carving.

The British had an elaborate system of bedding the long foreend of the various Enfields in cork.
 
In the late 1940s, the Stith Bearcub, Lyman and Weaver scopes became popular. My uncle made a jig to drill and tap Mauser actions on bringbacks. He either re-barreled, commonly in '06, or reamed chambers to 8mm-0'06.
 
People were free-floating barrels in the 1920s, and although bedding materials have changed some, there were ways to bed rifles then that we no longer use. One was to build up layers of cloth soaked with shellac under and around the action. Since the cloth would compress some and the shellac would harden, it served kind of the same purpose as glass bedding.

Sniper rifles from WW1 had set triggers, heavy barrels, scopes (the Germans had great glass), and shooting slings. I knew a guy about 30 years ago that made aluminum chassis for rifles. And the first fiberglass stocks were produced in the 1960s.

So, what you notice is that people back then knew how to make a rifle shoot. A few things have evolved and changed, but all in all, we are doing the same thing people were doing 100 years ago. Consider that up until the past 10 years or so, the longest sniper shot made was almost 50 years ago, at about 1-1/2 miles with a 50 BMG. And before that, the longest was made during the Civil War. And although there have been some absolutely amazingly small groups fired, you can still win benchrest matches shooting 3/16" at 100 yds.
 
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Bench rest shooting after WWII was popular in north central PA to southern NY. My father and some of his chums shot for fun, around some of the well known guys (think guys like Warren Paige).

Anyhow, money was tight, so guns did dual purpose: bench rest, then ground hogs, then deer! My father's rig was an early 50's Model 70 in .270, with reworked trigger and 15X Unertl UltraVarmint. I shot the gun (as set up like that) on a 100 yard range and it clover leafed on my first try! Alas my father traded off that scope, even up for a Redfield 3 to 9, and after my dad passed, that gun came to me.

About 35 years ago, I picked up a heavy barrel Ruger 77V in .22-250. I was fortunate to buy a pristine 15X Unertl UltraVarmint, identical to my father's, to put on the Ruger. Worked up tight shooting loads, shot a few groundhogs, and now the rifle rests with others waiting for the next time I get to feeling nostalgic, or impressing youngsters. I have to say (remembering my experience now is not with any bench rest scopes), the Unertls were the brightest & clearest scopes I've ever looked through! One of the days I'll probably put the Unertl on the old Model 70, even though a .270 is not a BR gun!
 
After W.W. II. Shooters started to have the money to put into stuff like that so the manufacturers obliged 'em. The quality of optics improved considerably too.
Free floating is not now nor has it ever been a guarantee of anything. It's something you can try, but not all rifles like it.
 
there was heavy interesting in shooing in between the two big wars.

Military with its matches and encouraging civilians doing the same thing.

More the 30-06 cartridge.

Lots of iron sights but I have one rifle form the 1920s that was drilled and tapped for a A5 setup so it did happen.

Suspect a military sharp shooter as gun ownership did not change form 1930 early to when I got it and he was involved in building housing at a military base.

Also 22 HB in military configuration was an on going thing
 
RC20, the nation's interest in shooting peaked just after WW1. Pope, Schoyen, and other well known gunsmiths tuning those drop dead gorgeous single shot rifles to perfection.

That 25 ring at 200 yards is less than an inch in diameter, and all is shot offhand, standing on your hind legs as a man, no less. ;)

Military match shooting didn't really kick into gear until post WW2.
 
When did things like heavy barrels, glass bedding, free floating etc start to become more common? Also how popular were Unertl scopes for target shooters during the 1930's and 40s or was it mostly just iron's back then?
Click to expand...

Prior to 1968 the Army financially supported the National Matches at Camp Perry. There were a lot of causes why financial support ended in 1968, part of it was that the Army stopped believing in marksmanship or marksmanship training, a belief codified in the adoption of the M16, and the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King gave the Army the political cover to walk away from financial support of the National Matches. However, prior to 1968, if you wanted to compete in NRA Highpower matches, you had to conform to the rules of the period, and they were written by Army, USMC, Navy, active duty and retired personnel. Active duty Military and Retired Military had the big vote at the table.

I have talked to many a Grey beard from the late 50's to the early 60's. The rules of the period were written so that you, the competitor, shot something like the service rifle. You can particularly see this in the configuration of the small bore rifles of the period. They had 3 pound triggers and the stock dimensions were "Garandish". The pre war rifles were "03 ish"

This is a 1939 ad for a Stevens M416




This is an H&R M12, made around 1981 and one that I bought from the CMP. It reflects the configuration of the small bore prone rifles of the 60's.



There are almost forty years between the two, there are differences, but they are slight. Neither of these rifles would be competitive in today's Small Bore game due to their heavy triggers and non agronomic stock configuration. The Army wanted Civilians to train with rifles that were close to the M1903 or Garand in configuration and so, the match rifles of the era were only allowed to deviate a little bit in stock shape.

From Bud's who shot Highpower in the 1950's, well you shot iron sights primarily. There was no such thing as an optical across the course rifle. For XTC, out to 600 yards, you used irons. Garands were very difficult to acquire. You could go the the National Matches and buy a NM Garand. State Teams had Garands and real M14's. Most club shooters used M1903A3's and held off on the target! I talked to the Club President about this, he competed at Camp Perry in the 50's, he said he was able to finally get a Garand in the 1980's. He bought an early Devine M1a in the 70's, to be competitive in service rifle. Once the M1a came available, serious civilian service rifle shooters walked away from their Garands and M1903A3's. The match rifles had a weight limitation that was close to a NM Garand (something less than 10 pounds), and you had a fixed buttplate. I doubt anyone used adjustable cheek pieces. One club member has a M70 match rifle from that era, very thin barrel, wooden stock, clip slotted action, I took pictures but I am not going to look at them. It was a rare rifle in original condition.

I don't know that much about the long range rifles. There had to be weight limits and I think there was an iron sighted and "any" category. I don't know what drove the any category. I have shot service rifle at 1000 yards and it is impossible, in my opinion. I used a frame hold, the bullseye gets washed out, my score was so low that I only tried it a couple of times. One thousand yard shooting is doable with an aperture front instead of a post, but still extremely frustrating to do. A scope really improves things at 1000 yards. As American's competed against the Russians in the Olympics, and lost, I know the small bore rules were altered so Americans, that is Army AMU shooters, could shoot rifles that were competitive at the International level. People today don't know what a big thing winning Olympic medals was during the Cold War era. The Olympics were viewed not as a competition between athletes, that is people, but between Nations and ideologies. Winning medals proved the superiority of the Nation and the economy theory, that is Communism or Capitalism. To prove Capitalism, and American Exceptionalism, was the best, Americans had to win Gold at the Olympics. So, small bore rules were changed so that American shooters could be more competitive at International events. What you see is that late 1960's Small Bore rifles began to change radically away from early 1960's service rifle configuration. Triggers changed too, early 60's rifles had three pound triggers, but, within a few years, the rules were changed to allow any trigger weight as long as the trigger was safe.

As for Unerl scopes. These long tube scopes fit on blocks on the barrel, like that Redfield 3200 on my H&R M12. Regional Matches are usually two day affairs, you shoot irons one day, 160 rounds, and then you shoot "any" the next day, 160 rounds. If you want to use the same rifle you have to have a convenient way to take off the irons and use a scope. These long tube scopes do that, and they do that with centerfire rifles too.

In my books and magazines, all the pre WW2 scopes that I see on rifles are long tube affairs mounted on barrel blocks. I don't know why they are all externally adjusted, maybe it was the technology of the era, and I don't know why they are all long tubed. Probably the same reason, but I am not an optical engineer.

Glass bedding seems to have been allowed in the early 1960's as the composite material became available on the commercial market place. I know the AMU developed a procedure on how to bed Garands with the stuff. Before fiberglass fibers and epoxy glue mixes were used, Garand stocks had to be shimmed between the action and stock, and even then, the wood compressed and the rifle shot poorly. Two part epoxies made for a stable rifle bedding and totally outclassed previous bedding practices. Once the Service Rifle teams approved the use of things for themselves, everyone else was allowed to use it too.

I don't have the NRA Highpower or Long Range Rules from the 1960's or 1970's, so I don't have an accurate chronology of the changes. But once the Army left the National Matches, the voting power of the Service Rifle teams was still dominant, but, since they were not bringing the big money to the table that they once were, civilians began to have more and more influence on the rules. Even so, recently the Service Rifle Teams rammed through an optical service rifle category in the rules, something not particularly popular with the civilians I know, but it will take time to see how things shake out. I am very upset that Dennis Demille, http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/dennis-demille/ a retired Service Rifle Team shooter changed the rules to make the AR-10 a "service rifle". Prior to his rule change, a service rifle was a M14, M1a (civilian version) AR15 or M16, and the Garand. The Military teams were doing horribly against the civilians at 1000 yards with their AR15's. Civilians could shoot the 308 Win cartridge in their M1a's or even Garands. The rules were obviously changed so the military shooters could again dominate at long range, and with a rifle that was so similar to the issue M16 that hardly any training was required for military shooters to understand the thing. Service Rifle teams are again setting records with their AR10's so, what we see, even though now the Civilians are paying the bills, the Service Rifle Teams still get to write the rules to their advantage.
 
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Can't speak about the 30's & 40's because they only let me have a sling shot back then.

As I can remember:

Heavy barrels & long external adjust scopes pre 60's.

External adjust Unertl scopes through 60's. I used a 14X 1.5 inch Unertl for a short time in the mid 60's. But later Unertl went to internal adjust scopes.

I did my first epoxy bedding job using Accra Glas in the late 60's.
 
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