Heads up on "The Iron Giant"

R

RepublicThunderbolt

New member
To parents who might consider taking the little ones to a show, the local paper printed the following gems about the movie...

"Kids will find the fun amid cartoon's morality messages"

"Now comes the animated feature version by Brad Bird, who turns it into a anti-gun, pro-nonconformity tale that raches out to tap Speilbergian well of emotion."

"As he gradually discovers the giant's superpowers, Hogarth teaches his metallic pal that "It's bad to kill, it's not bad to die."
Simplistic, but not terrible lessons for tots to absorb."

"The Iron Giant might be a good opportunity for parents to discuss death and guns with their kids, but don't be suprised if they leave the theater wanting to buy the movie's weapon toys."

Anti-gun and pro-nonconformity? Isn't this sort of oxymoronic? And last time I checked, most people think it's pretty "bad to die". Finally, once again we have an anti-gunner that thinks it's just dandy to sell what they promote as "evil". Just like all those action stars who promote violence and gunplay to line their own pockets, then join anti-gun organizations and promote banning the very implements of their trade.

Hmm...I'll go watch "Gunsmith Cats" for an animation fix. Not for the kiddies, but you gotta love a flick with a CZ-75 totin', GT-500 drivin' lead fighting an anti-gun politico that turn out to be a terriost-hiring illegal weapons smuggler!
 
I'll have to brave the waters on this...
With 4 boys - I end up seeing EVERY animated film out there.
Was able to dodge "The King and I" some how... But Iron Giant? I'm in deep...

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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
I usually read a number of entertainment related sites between Friday evening and Saturday morning. For the life of me, I cannot recall which site the director of The Iron Giant delivered an interview at (maybe Eon?) where he stated that his animated epic was NOT antigun.

Now, the Canadian movie site Jam! (http://www.canoe.com/JamMovies/home.html ) raved about The Iron Giant and even delivered a snotty dig at us Yanks, claiming that The Iron Giant "is a gun who chooses non-violence, so it will be interesting to see just where this movie gets banned. Maybe in America?"


The Iron Giant itself may be equated with a weapon (ie Gun) in some biased and irresponsible reviews. However, It also has the capacity to make decisions.

Following the logic of these forums, weapons and tools do not harm people; inanimate objects have no say in how they are used or abused, thus these weapons or tools shouldn't be stigmatized with restrictive laws and those individuals who misuse them should be held fully accountable for for their actions.

So, if the Iron Giant makes the decision to not kill and destroy, It is not a mere weapon but a sentient warrior capable of excercising choice. And what warrior or weapon owner can we fault for having the responsibility and wisdom under fire to know when to shoot and when not to pull the trigger?

The cartoon may have some similarities to Terminator 2: Judgement Day. I suspect T2 has its share of admirers here who praise that movie though big Arnie is told that "killing is bad."

"Killing was also bad" in Saving Private Ryan but like the fantasy oriented T2, we have soldiers who pull triggers not because they want to but because, given circumstances, they must. Saving Private Ryan has recieved plenty of respect here and in other self responsibility forums. I suspect most of the soldiers who survived, physically and/ or mentally, the meatgrinder portrayed in Private Ryan, would not go throwing down on civilians once they returned to America. On apocalyptic warfields, killing was sadly necessary. At home, such violence should be indeed bad and these soldiers would be reassured to know that they shouldn't have to kill again (despite the cliche of "blood lusting veterans", a stereotype that evidently existed sometime before the Vietnam War conflict).

In fact, whatever the antigunners say to the contrary, The Iron Giant sounds like it may be shaping up to be a study of both the character of a warrior and responsible weapon ownership (the robot has its own arsenal that It is reported to use with extreme discretion and a growing awareness of the consequences).
Jeff
 
Republic Thunderbolt,

Gunsmith Cats is great, I just love that GT-500! But as you said, definitely not for the kids...

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"...What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?... Fight, and you may die, run and you'll live, at least a while. And dying, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for just one chance, to tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!!!"
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je suis prest



[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited August 09, 1999).]
 
RepublicThunderbolt,

Have you seen "Riding Bean"? It is the (sorta) precursor to GC. I say sorta, because its only connection is Rally Vincent, and later, the Bean Bandit. While I thought the anime GC was excellent, the manga by Sonoda Kenichi was much better. It was interesting to see that bit about the "anti-gun politico" hiring gun-runners, and even attempting to use one himself at the end of vol 3. Art reflects real life, eh? And it came from Japan? What a crazy world we live in. Och, me brain hurts...

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"Is fhe'arr teicheadh math na droch fhuireach"
-Sarabian Oomodo

If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP!
 
Yes, Jedi Oomodo, I saw "Riding Bean" before the GSC series. Rally looks better as a
brunette, I think! I have one of the mangas (Misfire), haven't acquired the rest just yet. I was cringing when Ms. Vincent was using her SIG P210 to block the knife attack! Still, I sure like to meet a girl like that! Cool car, a gun room to drool over, and none too shabby in the looks department!

By the way, the local paper here printed another article extolling the anti-gun virtues of "The Iron Giant". The creator, Brad Bird stated in an interview that the basis of the film was "What if a gun had a soul?" This is hardly an unexplored area. Science fiction is replete with AI weapons systems. In truth, guns already have "souls", being mere extensions of their operators. This can be good, bad or indifferent. I don't know if this is a good movie or not, but with the liberal rag gushing so effusively, I would tend more toward the latter assessment.

Jffal, the problem (or ONE of the problems) is that the anti crowd doesn't view arms as
inanimate objects. Indeed, they seem quite willing to attribute both intent and volition to them. How many times have you heard "...the gun went off" used to absolve the human component of blame? Many truly seem to ascribe self-pulling triggers to "those damned evil guns".

The quote "It's bad to kill, it's not bad to die," pushed the notion that violence is
unconscionable, even if by inaction, you die. This philosophy can, and has, proven tragic
when the opposing party doesn't subscribe to your belief. Worldwide and throughout
history this has been proven in places like the ovens of Dachau and the killing fields of
Cambodia.

By the anti-gun viewpoint, a sentient weapon would have to throw itself into the nearest
crusher, overburdened by the knowledge that it has the tools to do harm. Sort of a suicide by Asimov's Laws taken to extreme. Ergo, we evil humans should all line up to have our fingers removed. After all, "idle hands", right? Then we could be like those happy, non-violent, intelligent creatures on our planet. Oh, wait. There aren't any. The species that were once held as "peaceful", like dolphins and the primates, are with closer inspection, turning out to have violence, murder, rape and coalition warfare that equates our own.

Jffal's reference to "Terminator 2" (a sour abuse of the original message, in my opinion), brings an interesting question. If one give the machine a "soul" of equal value to those of biological entities, isn't it just as wrong to "murder" Skynet (or G.O.R.N., à la Sonada), the machine that "gets smart" and decides to rid itself those pesky humans? Can't be violent, now...

Am I alone in not particularly liking "Saving Private Ryan"? I thought that much of the
film was quite hokey. A high ranking officer chasing about with a small unit, attacking and intervening well outside mission parameters? The "stolen" Hathcock sniper shot (even my mother snorted at that, since I gave her the book to read)? The P-51 "Big Beautiful Doll" (actually an Aussie CA.22) killing a Tiger I with the .50's at "just the right moment"? Isn't there enough good,
real WWII material about to make a few dozen movies from? Given Speilburg's political
views, can't say that I was suprised, though. I hear they're making a fictional U-boat capture movie now. What's wrong with the very dramatic U-505 capture story?
 
Spielberg's movies are not worth watching, IMO. They use up lots of great tech expertise to no good end, as stories suck and their treatment is hokey. "Schindler's List" not only left out important details (rifles for the Jews) but made me feel that Spielberg was getting off on human suffering and using an excuse of "how terrible" to make more of it. Try "Good Evening Mr. Wallenberg" or "Cross of Iron" (both book and movie -- they differ a lot but both are good).

As for P51 tank killer...didn't they have bazookas riggen on underwing pilons?
 
Republic Thunderbolt,

I have met a girl like that, and I married her! In case you didn't know, she's Darthmaum, also a member here at TFL. About Riding Bean- Yes, GC has more appeal to me as well, as there were certain elements to RB that I didn't care for (i.e. Semmerling and her 12yo accomplice). What Rally did to her P210 was just plain criminal! Rally has asserted elsewhere that the CZ-75 is the "pinnacle of modern handgun evolution"- while I take issue with that statement, the author, and Rally, are entitled to their own opinion. I say author, because Sonoda is a BIG fan of the CZ. It's definitely worth your time to read other manga in the series.

RE "it's not bad to die". Says who? IMO, dying is not exactly what I would call pleasant. By my own beliefs, I have something more to look forward to after my physical body dies, but I do have a wife and children that I'm quite fond of and will never be "ready" to leave them. Scary that so many millions of families will probably expose their sons and daughters to that insipid sentiment.

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"Is fhe'arr teicheadh math na droch fhuireach"
-Sarabian Oomodo

If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP!
 
You're right in that the Mustang could carry a variety of unguided rockets and bombs, cornered rat. It wasn't the best ground attack aircraft because the cooling system was highly vulnerable. My point was not that the P-51 couldn't kill armour, but that a "clean" Mustang rolling in with just the six M2 .50-cals wouldn't stand much chance in killing the well-protected Tiger. It might not have even been legal to mount even mock ordinance on the CA.22 (even the FAA here can cause some problems with this), or more likely, it simiply never occurred to the film makers. The glorious Merlin with its big Hamiliton Standard prop is also gonna make a lot of lovely noise diving in. Be kinda hard not to notice it!

Jedi Oomodo, if you don't mind my saying so, you're one lucky bugger...
 
I haven't seen the film, but a number of years ago there was a musical album made based on the childrens book "The Iron Man." Pete Townsend did the music and I rather liked it. The album wasn't anit-gun, it was anti-war. Now if this flick is "anti-gun", yeah, I'm gonna get ticked. If it's anti-war, well, that's ok by me.

A lot of my friends are surprised that I collect all kinds of evil black guns, yet I hate war. I'd rather see governments try anything before they start dropping bombs on people. Visiting the Wall and going to Arlington was heart-breaking. All those lives cut short because some maniac on either side decided to start a war. Weither it's Hitler, Clinton, or Bin Ladien(sp)its just a waste.

I think I'll see the film and report back.
 
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