Head shots?

3

.357SIG

New member
I hope this isn't a sensitive question, but is there something wrong with taking a head shot when all else fails? You hear these stories about how so and so took 20 rounds of .45 to the chest and kept coming; why not take a head shot if it doesn't work anywhere else?

Just wondering.
 
There are a few problems with head shots. For one, the head is a relatively small target. For another, it moves quickly. For yet another, the effective kill zone for a head shot is very small (don't go for the forehead; center of the face is where you have the best chance of dropping the goblin).

However, if you've put a few into center-mass and the goblin is still on his feet, then he's probably wearing armor, in which case a head shot is indicated. Some defensive classes train 2+1: CM doubletap, if no effect, go for the head.

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"America needs additional gun laws like a giraffe needs snow tires."
--Rabbi Mermelstein, JPFO
 
What he said, I was always taught the 2+1, but... If your in a situation where you are defending your life, why not go for the head, less chance of the assailant living and testifying why he was doing a termite inspection in your computer room @ 0230 ;)

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DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
 
"Any man worth shooting is worth shooting twice....or more"
Anonymous

"Never do an enemy a minor injury"
Macciavelli; Recently requoted by Jeff Cooper in his Commentaries.
Rich
 
.357SIG:

What they said...absolutely nothing wrong with doing it, IF you can do it.

2+1 used to be called the "Mozambique Drill" when I attended Gunsite in the early 80s. Apparently one of Cooper's acquaintances (a white farmer in Mozambique) was accosted in his barn by a drugged up indig terrorist. The farmer popped him twice CM with his trusty P-35 to no effect...immediately elevated and put one on the end of his nose...conversation ended!

Mike
 
On at least one other board in some different "rooms" I have responded to the head shot situation with these cautions. First of all, I've never shot anyone (thank God! and I pray it will stay that way), but I have shot animals in the head at various ranges, always effectively until one day I called in a mtn. lion and shot it through the lungs. It got up and started to run away (about 15 ft. in distance from me). I fired a quick shot and later discovered the round had bounced off the lion's head and passed through his left ear (I have the rug to prove this.)

The gun and round in question were a Smith 629 with a 6" barrel and a 215 gr. commercially cast SWC with 9.5 gr. of Unique--not a terribly powerful load, but I truly believe the reason for the deflection was the extremely shallow angle at which the bullet struck. The lion stood about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall, I'd say, and I shot from the hip--about 36-40" or so from the ground.

There are cases of people shooting themselves in the head (deliberately) with a .25 ACP round and living and functioning for half an hour or more.

I read of a man shot in the forehead with a .38 S&W round and the bullet skidded along the skull and exited the skin in the back of the head. A terrific headache, but apparently nothing more.

There is a famous incident regarding a man whose name I can never remember. This railroad worker had a dynamite cap drive a tamping bar through his head. He never lost consciousness, as I recall, and lived for several years afterward, though his mental state steadily deteriorated until, at the end, he was a pitiful case.

Some people think Pres. Lincoln might well have lived if the doctors hadn't repeatedly "probed" his wound with their fingers to try to locate the bullet. In other words, the docs, not Booth might have actually killed him.

I think the moral is: take head shots if they are offered as a reasonable alternative, but don't take nothin' for granted!

Offered only for careful consideration.
 
Mike: As I remember it, the fellow placed two rounds to the body with no effect, so he begin to spray-and-pray in panic. As luck would have it, one of these rounds struck the terr in the head, ending his nefarious actions. Cooper refined the drill to its current format: "2rds to the body, evaluate, 1rd to the head".
 
It is true that the brain stem is a definitive target for ending all motor functions of your BG. It is also true that at close quarters with a moving target/low light, that targeting CM is priority one.

The question seemed to assume that one has a handgun in hand. What about a 12 guage shotgun loaded with 00 buck? Same-same. CM++

Long range rifle shot rested and scoped has to target the stem. No need for a bayonet there.
 
I'm not too proud to admit that in the past after 2 solid CM thumps in a similar situation that I would definitely go to spray and pray in the same situation. Hopefully, subsequent training has produced the possibility of a better response. I do agree with having the 12 guage as part of the program if at all possible.
 
2 3/4" of birdshot will maul someone into death at a close range, or remembering there mistake for the rest of their disfigured life. All the while with the least possibility of going through a wall.

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DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
 
Rod WMG: the rail worker you are referring to was Phineas Gage.

For those who care:
A tamping iron (about a yard long and 1 1/4" at the thick end) blew thru his left cheekbone and exited through the top of his head and kept going about 25 yards. As a result, he lost much of his left frontal lobe. Aside from a huge change in his personality, he pretty much survived. As the story goes, he became such a rude @#%^ that he couldn't hold his old job as a foreman and ended being a living display in the Barnum museum.

The orginal tamping iron, as well as his skull are on display at Harvard's school of medicine, if you're into that sort of thing.

Just a little wednesday morning trivia :)

..tm
 
Head shots aren't guaranteed stoppers, as has been pointed out.

That being said, a shot to the head is still a good bet IF you have a strong likelihood of correctly placing the shot (ex: short range with a shotgun).

ONLY a round to the central nervous system (brain or spine) is a guaranteed stop. Otherwise, the mechanics are the same (the guy must bleed out or quit - and you can't count on him quitting).

A round placed in the "T" formed by the eyes and running down the nose, thru the neck, will be extremely likely to incapacitate even with a .22 short. This "T" is basically unprotected by skull. Any shotgun load at 10m or less to this "T" will almost certainly be fatal.
 
I have set in on several of Robbi Barkmans courses and have seen women who had never shot a hand gun that after 2 days were able to draw and put two in two inches in the heart area and one in the head every time. Its all a matter of training and practice. What they would do in the event of an attack who knows? But you will do what you have been trained to do! Like the cop who was killed with his left hand full of empties and the cylinder swung out on his revolver. He had been trained to dump the empties into his hand and put them in a box at the police range he trained on. He was killed looking for the box
 
I've also received the 2+1 training - called either a Mozambique, or a 'failure drill'. The failure being either the BG just doesn't go down, and / or is wearing body armor.

I'm getting better with placement of all three shots, but punching paper is surely easier than a rapidly moving BG ...
 
Another thread with this theme can be found using TFL's search function: enter 'OSS Aiming Point' as the subject and 'Handgun and Pistolcraft' as the topic area. It will return a thread from 11/98.

In the recent past I had occasion to discuss CQB pistol technique with a former Sov spec ops guy who now lives here in the USofA. He trained his people to shoot for the head exclusively within CQB distances.

[This message has been edited by SKN (edited October 14, 1999).]
 
In his day David, (prior to becomming King of Israel), sunk a 1.+ caliber hard ball slug just above and between the eyes of a famous soldier of the Philistine infantry. His tactics were: Head shot first, then take the enemies weapon from him and remove the head with his own sword. This so demoralized the Philistine troops and encouraged the Israeli army that the nation won a great victory that day.

Unfortunately, most of us aren't as skilled with our sidearm as David was.

Fortunately, we are not facing warfare and a heavily armoured enemy; therefore, different tactics are needed.

As for me, practice, practice, practice, train, train, train. If ever forced to defend life and limb. Center mass (slight heart side), and move to the head before emptying the magazine. That's my .02s . None of this double tap. Stop... Evaluate.... Engage again stuff. There are far better marksmen and there are combat experts far better than me that would disagree, but until they give me a very good reason to change tactics.............

I have high respect for those who teach the Mozambique drill, but why not say quadruple tap, then go for the head, when the gun is dry and you have found cover, then evaluate? There must be a GROSS PROBLEM with this tactic if its never mentioned by the trainers in the gun magazines. What am I missing?

By the way, I enjoyed the quotes, Rich.

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
Twice in the heart once in the head square between the eyes is the drill. It should work. If it does't you are most likely shooting blanks! They will go down. If they try to get up I would say that you have a BIG problem and I would try for both legs and then run awayyyyy
Hank
 
Actually, I think you are complicating the issue a little bit. This may be rumor, but I believe the SAS and Seal Team 6, among others, practice all head shots with their handguns. The rationale is, why wait to discover if they are wearing body armor, just go straight to the head.
Personally, I once shot an ipsc match all head shots just to see if I could do it. I could, and I wasn't that much slower. With practice, I will probably be just as good (you've convinced me, I'm going to start doing it). I know a guy at my local IDPA matches who only does head shots. When you think about it, unless you consider the whole torso your target area, then the vital zone in the chest is no larger than the vital zone of the head. I've also found that when you concentrate on shooting a smaller target, your groups get smaller to. Some have commented on the head shots that have survived. I would venture to say that a smaller percentage have survived a head shot than have survived chest shots. I also think that if your first shot didn't drop him instantly, he would probably have a concussion and be more disabled than your unsuccessful torso shot.
Finally, a point I won't contest. The head moves more and you do have a greater risk of a miss with a moving target. I guess you just have to assess the situation and pick your target.

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Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
 
Perfect practice makes perfect. It would seem to me that your target acquisition habits should be a function of your training regimen. If you opt for the head shot versus the traditional path of center of mass, it should be automatic. Consider my case, I typically whitetail deer hunt in open areas with a .243. I continuously practice at extended ranges shooting deer sillhouettes in the head. Therefore, when the moment of hunting truth arises, a head shot is second nature. Additionally, the .243 has no recoil for me so a precision shot is not interrupted by flashbacks of extreme recoil. If I were practicing to make head shots, I would opt for a pistol caliber that I knew would not make me flinch no matter what the circumstances might be. Choosing a human traget is something, I hope and pray will never occur in my brief time on this earth.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
One more thing about head shots. The Russian Special Forces (Spetznatz) have been relegated to anti-domestic terroism ops during the U.S.-funded re-capitalization breather they are taking before Russia emerges again as a communist enemy. Spetznats recruits are taught in close-quarter battle scenarios with the Pistolet Makarova to shoot for the head. The rational is that even if you don't hit the bad guy, bullets whizing past his nogin will disorient him and allow one of your fellow comrades to finish the job. I'm sure economics come into play here since ammo probably comes at a premium. The Discovery Channel had a special on about the Spetznatz a few weeks back. Essentially, they are available to the highest bidder in Russia proper. God Bless America----Land that I Love!

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
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