HD recommendation please
- Thread starter Lokpyrite
- Start date
Recommendations
1) Check out corneredcat.com, a website run by one of the TFL mods, Pax. She gives a lot of advice which is geared toward new, female shooters but which is useful for shooters in general.
2) Take your mother to a range that rents different types of handguns, and find out what types and calibers she likes best. She should be able to manipulate any controls it may have, and be able to cycle the action / open the cylinder. This is a quick way to find out what fits in her hand, and what does not; also, which guns have bad control layouts or excessively strong springs for her hands.
3) Best bet is to not make assumptions about what will work for her, based on what works for you - especially if her hands are a very different size from yours. (I have large hands, and hate guns with small grips - even in lower powered calibers, I have issues controlling something too small to get a grasp on.)
1) Check out corneredcat.com, a website run by one of the TFL mods, Pax. She gives a lot of advice which is geared toward new, female shooters but which is useful for shooters in general.
2) Take your mother to a range that rents different types of handguns, and find out what types and calibers she likes best. She should be able to manipulate any controls it may have, and be able to cycle the action / open the cylinder. This is a quick way to find out what fits in her hand, and what does not; also, which guns have bad control layouts or excessively strong springs for her hands.
3) Best bet is to not make assumptions about what will work for her, based on what works for you - especially if her hands are a very different size from yours. (I have large hands, and hate guns with small grips - even in lower powered calibers, I have issues controlling something too small to get a grasp on.)
pythagorean
Moderator
There was a time when my own mom wanted a gun for herself. I went with her to the gunstore and we came back with a 2.5" SW 19.
We went to the range together starting with wadcutters. She tried a few .357s afterwards. In the end she felt the wadcutters were best.
She had fun shooting it.
For her the revolver was the winner over an auto.
We went to the range together starting with wadcutters. She tried a few .357s afterwards. In the end she felt the wadcutters were best.
She had fun shooting it.
For her the revolver was the winner over an auto.
How is her hand strength?
How often would she practice?
If she can pull the DA on a revolver, go with a DA revolver.
With a revolver, there are less things to manipulate/remember.
S&W Model 15, 67, 64, etc. Maybe a Ruger SP101.
Of course, she has to decide what she likes.
My girlfriends grandmother is in her late 70s. She keeps a snub-nosed 38 as main HD and a Browning Buckmark for fun. She does not like shooting the 38 because the DA is heavy and strong recoil (to her) BUT she can easily load/unload and handle the revolver. She shoots a few rounds with it everytime she goes to the range with me. This year, she has gone 4 times.
With the Buckmark semi-auto --- she likes its light SA pull and low recoil but She tend to be clumsy with it. mag release, pulling the slide, etc.
She has tried most of my 9s (Walther P99, Sig P6, 1911) but she can't rack the slide on most of them. She had not problem racking the slide of my HK USP 9mm but the pistol is too big for her.
How often would she practice?
If she can pull the DA on a revolver, go with a DA revolver.
With a revolver, there are less things to manipulate/remember.
S&W Model 15, 67, 64, etc. Maybe a Ruger SP101.
Of course, she has to decide what she likes.
My girlfriends grandmother is in her late 70s. She keeps a snub-nosed 38 as main HD and a Browning Buckmark for fun. She does not like shooting the 38 because the DA is heavy and strong recoil (to her) BUT she can easily load/unload and handle the revolver. She shoots a few rounds with it everytime she goes to the range with me. This year, she has gone 4 times.
With the Buckmark semi-auto --- she likes its light SA pull and low recoil but She tend to be clumsy with it. mag release, pulling the slide, etc.
She has tried most of my 9s (Walther P99, Sig P6, 1911) but she can't rack the slide on most of them. She had not problem racking the slide of my HK USP 9mm but the pistol is too big for her.
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spacecoast
New member
A 4" police-type revolver in .38 special is almost always a good (or great) choice for HD, remember that to minimize recoil you need to get the biggest gun that fits the space it needs to fit. Adjustable sights are easier to snag on something and are not necessary. A heavy barreled Model 10 or Model 64 S&W is inexpensive, has a moderate sized frame and would probably do just fine. She can practice with wadcutters and keep it loaded with +P hollowpoints, the Remington R38S12 LSWCHP is one of the best available. A Model 64 is pictured in the center below, along with a 6" 686 (top) and a snub nose Model 60 J frame.
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The "a revolver is best for novices and older folks" argument...
... has been around for a long, long time - but that doesn't make it inherently true.
For one thing, it really isn't that hard to learn how to operate a semi-auto; it isn't that hard to learn to clear stoppages. If a person lacks the mental capacity to figure out those basic steps, they probably also lack the ability to operate any handgun in a safe and effective manner.
For another, while the slide can be a challenge on an auto, the DA trigger can be a real challenge on a revolver.
My mother, who is pushing 70 and is beginning to suffer from weakening of her hands, got her CCW last year. I offered to let her borrow her choice of guns from my personal arsenal. I let her try to cycle the actions of several pistols, and dry-fire pistols and revolvers.
She had trouble with a GP100 and an SP101. Opening the cylinder, loading and unloading were no problem. The DA triggers were big problems - and my Rugers had Wolff upgrades.
She even had some trouble with my S&W 18 DA trigger.
So.... she eventually chose my SIG P239 DAK. She could work the 9mm slide, once I showed her how to push the frame through, instead of pull the slide back. Partly, this was because the 9mm recoil spring isn't that strong; partly, this was because the P239 has a relatively tall slide, compared to the slides on my CZ's (slide inside frame on the CZ leaves a lot less area to grab).
She had no trouble at all with the 6.5lb DAK trigger, or its pull length.
For her birthday, I bought her a gun-handling class at a range near my parents' house. I called the instructor, and asked him to focus on stoppage clearing, loading, and unloading - because Mom is a pretty good shot for a novice.
She had learned most of this stuff with me, but I felt it would help to have it reinforced by a professional, who was not her child. (I've learned over the years that it isn't always a good idea to try to teach loved ones; they will argue more with someone they know than they will with someone they have to pay.)
She has since bought a SIG Mosquito for inexpensive practice, but she makes a point of also bringing the P239 and shooting at least 25-50 rounds when she goes to the range.
Going back to my original post - you have to find a gun that fits comfortably, that shoots comfortably, and that has its controls laid out in a way that works well with the intended shooter's hands. This may very well be a revolver, but it could just as easily be a semi-auto. Best thing is to handle a variety, and find out what fits; then, find a good instructor to teach fundamental shooting and handling skills.
Don't assume that because she is older, or female, that a semi-auto is beyond her abilities.
Cheers,
M
(Proud son of a college salutatorian, brother of a university associate VP, and mate to a former pro rider/trainer and soon to be RN - don't sell the women short, guys.)
... has been around for a long, long time - but that doesn't make it inherently true.
For one thing, it really isn't that hard to learn how to operate a semi-auto; it isn't that hard to learn to clear stoppages. If a person lacks the mental capacity to figure out those basic steps, they probably also lack the ability to operate any handgun in a safe and effective manner.
For another, while the slide can be a challenge on an auto, the DA trigger can be a real challenge on a revolver.
My mother, who is pushing 70 and is beginning to suffer from weakening of her hands, got her CCW last year. I offered to let her borrow her choice of guns from my personal arsenal. I let her try to cycle the actions of several pistols, and dry-fire pistols and revolvers.
She had trouble with a GP100 and an SP101. Opening the cylinder, loading and unloading were no problem. The DA triggers were big problems - and my Rugers had Wolff upgrades.
She even had some trouble with my S&W 18 DA trigger.
So.... she eventually chose my SIG P239 DAK. She could work the 9mm slide, once I showed her how to push the frame through, instead of pull the slide back. Partly, this was because the 9mm recoil spring isn't that strong; partly, this was because the P239 has a relatively tall slide, compared to the slides on my CZ's (slide inside frame on the CZ leaves a lot less area to grab).
She had no trouble at all with the 6.5lb DAK trigger, or its pull length.
For her birthday, I bought her a gun-handling class at a range near my parents' house. I called the instructor, and asked him to focus on stoppage clearing, loading, and unloading - because Mom is a pretty good shot for a novice.
She had learned most of this stuff with me, but I felt it would help to have it reinforced by a professional, who was not her child. (I've learned over the years that it isn't always a good idea to try to teach loved ones; they will argue more with someone they know than they will with someone they have to pay.)
She has since bought a SIG Mosquito for inexpensive practice, but she makes a point of also bringing the P239 and shooting at least 25-50 rounds when she goes to the range.
Going back to my original post - you have to find a gun that fits comfortably, that shoots comfortably, and that has its controls laid out in a way that works well with the intended shooter's hands. This may very well be a revolver, but it could just as easily be a semi-auto. Best thing is to handle a variety, and find out what fits; then, find a good instructor to teach fundamental shooting and handling skills.
Don't assume that because she is older, or female, that a semi-auto is beyond her abilities.
Cheers,
M
(Proud son of a college salutatorian, brother of a university associate VP, and mate to a former pro rider/trainer and soon to be RN - don't sell the women short, guys.)
With your mother's weak hands due to aging, have your considered Ruger's LCR that has the lightest double action / trigger pull of 99% of the NIB revolvers out there? If you haven't tried the LCR, you're in for a pleasant surprise.
Range time might include using low recoiling 38 Special 148-gr. wadcutters and for emergency self defense (SD), switch to Speer's excellent 135-gr. short barrel Gold Dot.
If you cannot get your mother to the range, just let her dry-fire a bit and then use the Gold Dot short barrel load for SD.
Range time might include using low recoiling 38 Special 148-gr. wadcutters and for emergency self defense (SD), switch to Speer's excellent 135-gr. short barrel Gold Dot.
If you cannot get your mother to the range, just let her dry-fire a bit and then use the Gold Dot short barrel load for SD.
I owned an LCR, briefly...
... and it does have a very nice trigger, especially for a snubby.
That said, while the recoil on the LCR is very manageable, it's not what I'd call "pleasant." Even with good ergonomics, a 13oz gun is going to have some kick to it.
At least in my mother's case, the P239 is much more conducive to practice shooting.
And for home defense, vs concealed carry, why would anybody buy a high-recoil weapon? For HD, the biggest gun in any given caliber that one can use will afford least recoil.
Snubbies are NOT novice guns. They may be simple to operate, as far as basic function, but they have more recoil than larger handguns; their shape tends to allow the shooter less leverage over the trigger than is normal on larger handguns; and their short sight radius is harder to use than the longer sight radii on larger handguns.
Do snubbies have a purpose? Yes. They are concealable; they can be fired from a pocket in a crunch; they are hard for a BG to grab; shoving them into the target won't take them out of battery (of course, the same is true for any revolver).
But they are far from the best for HD, especially for somebody with limited or no shooting experience, and weak hands.
... and it does have a very nice trigger, especially for a snubby.
That said, while the recoil on the LCR is very manageable, it's not what I'd call "pleasant." Even with good ergonomics, a 13oz gun is going to have some kick to it.
At least in my mother's case, the P239 is much more conducive to practice shooting.
And for home defense, vs concealed carry, why would anybody buy a high-recoil weapon? For HD, the biggest gun in any given caliber that one can use will afford least recoil.
Snubbies are NOT novice guns. They may be simple to operate, as far as basic function, but they have more recoil than larger handguns; their shape tends to allow the shooter less leverage over the trigger than is normal on larger handguns; and their short sight radius is harder to use than the longer sight radii on larger handguns.
Do snubbies have a purpose? Yes. They are concealable; they can be fired from a pocket in a crunch; they are hard for a BG to grab; shoving them into the target won't take them out of battery (of course, the same is true for any revolver).
But they are far from the best for HD, especially for somebody with limited or no shooting experience, and weak hands.