HCI responds to Michigan CCW...and I respond to HCI

T

Tortuga

New member
Here's a statement from HCI on Michigan's passing of a CCW law. My response is in the following post.

HCI: Brady Statement on Weakening of Mich. Concealed-Carry Law
U.S. Newswire
4 Jan 12:32
Statement of Sarah Brady on the Weakening of Michigan's
Concealed-Carry Law
To: National Desk
Contact: Handgun Control, Inc. Communications, http://www.handguncontrol.org

WASHINGTON, Jan. 4 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released
today by Handgun Control, Inc.:

"Once again, over the wishes of a clear majority of his
constituents, Governor John Engler has pandered to the gun lobby
and signed a bill weakening the state's concealed weapons law.
Citizens who truly favor safer streets are sadly disappointed in
their government.

"Under this bill, persons applying to carry a hidden handgun
would no longer have to show need for carrying a gun. Furthermore,
county gun boards and local law enforcement would no longer have
any discretion when it comes to issuing concealed weapons permits.
This means that anyone who can legally own a gun and who goes
through minimal safety training would be able to carry it on
Michigan streets. It is a slap in the face to law enforcement who
go through regular training in the use of deadly force that
lawmakers have seen fit to ignore the views of the men and women
who put their lives on the line to enforce the law.

"I think we all know people who may not be criminals but who
have bad tempers, who have poor judgment or who carry grudges.
This bill would force the people of Michigan to wonder if the
person sitting next to them in the movie theater, standing in line
behind them in the grocery store, or waiting with them in line for
the bus is carrying a loaded gun.

"This bill requires only eight hours of firearms training. The
Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police has pointed out that every
law enforcement officer is required to undergo 72 hours of firearms
training with recertification in firearms proficiency at least once
a year. Little wonder then that this measure has been fiercely
opposed by Michigan law enforcement, prosecutors, the clergy and
the medical community. A December 10 EPIC/MRA poll showed that 55
percent of Michigan voters oppose this bill.

"Unfortunately, Michigan lawmakers are not listening to their
constituents, prosecutors or those who know best how to protect
public safety. Despite the legislature's obvious intent to
suppress the will of the people by including appropriations
language, HCI feels certain that this bill will not stand. We
support Michigan's People Who Care About Kids and all other
community groups' efforts to overturn this CCW bill, and encourage
them to bring this issue to the voters who can let their true
feelings be heard.

"Mark my words: this insult to caring Michigan citizens will not
go unnoticed, and will not be forgotten."

---
Handgun Control, chaired by Sarah Brady, was founded in 1974 by
Dr. Mark Borinsky and N.T. "Pete" Shields, two victims of gun
violence. Based in Washington, D.C., HCI works with law
enforcement, public health, religious, and community groups across
the country to strengthen and protect federal, state and local gun
control laws, but does not seek to ban all guns. HCI has over
500,000 members and supporters nationwide, making it the nation's
largest citizens' gun control lobbying organization. More
information about HCI and its sister organization, the Center to
Prevent Handgun Violence, can be found on our Web site at http://www.handguncontrol.org.
 
My response...

Here's what I think about their "news release"...

The following can be found on HCI's web site at http://www.handguncontrol.org/press/release.asp?Record=43 .

The comments in bold are my comments.

For Immediate Release:
1/3/01

WEAKENING MICHIGAN'S CONCEALED-CARRY LAW
Statement from Sarah Brady

Please note that what you're about to hear comes not as an unbiased news release, but from the chairwoman of an extremist group - a group that advocates banning the majority of firearms in America (namely inexpensive handguns, all fully-automatic and semi-automatic handguns, shotguns, and rifles [otherwise known as "assault weapons"], most hunting rifles [otherwise known as "sniper rifles"], .50 caliber firearms, and guns and ammunition that don't even exist [such as "plastic handguns" and "cop-killer bullets"]). Also note that U.S. Newswire doesn't seem to have any press releases from pro-gun advocates, such as the NRA or GOA.

"Once again, over the wishes of a clear majority of his constituents, Governor John Engler has pandered to the gun lobby and signed a bill weakening the state's concealed weapons law.

"Clear majority"? "Pandered to the gun lobby"? How do you figure that? It's clear that the constituents that really care about this issue, one way or the other, join advocacy groups. The leading pro-gun group, the NRA, has 4,000,000 members whereas HCI only has 400,000 to 500,000 members. That's nearly a 10 to 1 ratio of pro-gunners to anti-gunners. How do you figure that your side represents the majority of INFORMED constituents?

And by the way, we're not the "gun lobby". We're not "manufacturers pushing a product" (as you often paint gun makers). We're citizens who want to preserve our God-given right to defend ourselves and our families.

"...Citizens who truly favor safer streets are sadly disappointed in their government.

The 4,000,000 members of the NRA don't "truly favor safer streets"?! Let's be honest! Of course pro-gunners want safer streets! HCI and NRA members might have different plans on how to accomplish this goal but to suggest that NRA members don't want safer streets is absurd!

"Under this bill, persons applying to carry a hidden handgun would no longer have to show need for carrying a gun.

Right! Because your definition of "need" is that you're a police officer or a security guard for Rosie O'Donnell. Our definition of "need" applies to all people because all people "need" to be able to defend themselves and their families. After all, case law shows that police have no obligation to protect you. And we both know that a gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

Let's also not forget that we all have a right to "bear" arms. If I come to your home "bearing" gifts, it doesn't mean that I left them at home locked in a safe. I know that you disagree with me on this point, but it's amazing to me that you actually believe that while the phrase "the right of the People" appears in the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments, only in the Second Amendment does it mean "the right of the National Guard".

"...Furthermore, county gun boards and local law enforcement would no longer have any discretion when it comes to issuing concealed weapons permits.

We both know that this power is often abused. Where I live, in Westchester County, New York, CCW permits are issued based upon a judge's discretion - which means that NOBODY gets one (unless you're a county legislator, etc.).

This country is founded on the principal that "all men are created equal". Instead, you prefer a system where some are "more equal" than others. You're terrified of the prospect of citizens carrying concealed weapons in New York City, but where's your outrage when Rosie O'Donnell (who tapes her show in NYC) has a bodyguard that carries a concealed weapon? Where's your press release on how her actions are conflicting with the wishes of the majority of the NYC constituents?!

"...This means that anyone who can legally own a gun and who goes through minimal safety training would be able to carry it on Michigan streets...

So...WHO EXACTLY would you allow to OWN a gun and keep it in their home (without any training to do so) but NOT allow them to legally carry it?

Are you trying to tell me that there are actually people (criminals, mentally insane, etc.) that you'd allow to own a gun with no training but wouldn't allow them to carry a gun WITH training?

This makes no sense!

"...It is a slap in the face to law enforcement who go through regular training in the use of deadly force that lawmakers have seen fit to ignore the views of the men and women who put their lives on the line to enforce the law.

Exactly how did lawmakers ignore the views of law enforcement? What was law enforcement's view on the number of hours of training required of average citizens before they can carry concealed weapons?

If it's merely the fact that law enforcement trains for more hours than average citizens, then this doesn't make sense. After all, our armed forces train for months on the proper use of a rifle. The FBI trains their cadets for months in Virginia. Is allowing police officers to carry a gun with only 72 hours of training a "slap in the face" to the FBI and the National Guard?

Perhaps each level of person carrying a firearm requires a different amount of training.

"I think we all know people who may not be criminals but who have bad tempers, who have poor judgment or who carry grudges. This bill would force the people of Michigan to wonder if the person sitting next to them in the movie theater, standing in line behind them in the grocery store, or waiting with them in line for the bus is carrying a loaded gun.

Have you ever considered the fact that this is EXACTLY what criminals are now thinking?! They now realize that ANY ONE of their next victims could be carrying a gun! With CCW laws in place, they're sure to think twice before raping another woman. This is exactly why the other 43 states that enacted CCW laws saw falling violent crime rates right after the law were passed.

And let's be honest here. Do you actually expect us to believe that Michigan residents never had to worry if criminals, people with poor judgment, people holding grudges, or with a bad temper were carrying a gun before this law? The people that were going to cause trouble have been carrying them anyway.

Why do you insist on victims being disarmed while you know that criminals will always carry guns?

"This bill requires only eight hours of firearms training. The Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police has pointed out that every law enforcement officer is required to undergo 72 hours of firearms training with recertification in firearms proficiency at least once a year.

While the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police has "pointed out" this fact, did they suggest that every CCW permit holder also meet these requirements?

Even given these facts, law-abiding citizens kill 30 people each year that they mistakenly believe to be an intruder while police officers kill 330 innocent individuals annually. Apparently, the scenarios you envision are rare and more training is not the solution.

"...Little wonder then that this measure has been fiercely opposed by Michigan law enforcement, prosecutors, the clergy and the medical community.

Every study I've ever seen of law enforcement says that the rank-and-file police officer clearly supports concealed carry laws. Every day they see first hand the sick demented things criminals do to their victims and that they can't be everywhere at all times.

Also, groups like "prosecutors" and "the clergy" have little to do with this issue. Why not ask computer programmers how they feel about it? Why would I care what prosecutors feel about the right to carry concealed weapons? It sounds to me like you're really trying to stretch for support on this issue.

"...A December 10 EPIC/MRA poll showed that 55% of Michigan voters oppose this bill.

If you polled residents on whether or not the government should send them a check for $100,000 each year, I'm sure it would get at least 55% of the vote. But that doesn't make it right.

In 1850 or 1950, if you polled Americans on whether or not all blacks should be "shipped back to Africa", it may have also passed the popular vote. But that doesn't make it right.

We live in a republic, not a democracy. The majority does NOT rule. Instead, elected representatives learn each issue in depth and vote on what is right for America - not what is popular.

Just because a majority of Americans who aren't educated in depth on this issue are against it means little to me.

"Unfortunately, Michigan lawmakers are not listening to their constituents, prosecutors or those who know best how to protect public safety. Despite the legislature's obvious intent to suppress the will of the people by including appropriations language, HCI feels certain that this bill will not stand.

"Listening to their constituents", "prosecutors", "protect public safety", and "will of the people". Ditto to everything I just said above.

"...We support Michigan's People Who Care About Kids...

There's actually a group that calls itself, "People Who Care About Kids" and it's anti-gun? As if pro-gunners don't care about kids!

"...and all other community groups' efforts to overturn this CCW bill, and encourage them to bring this issue to the voters who can let their true feelings be heard..

"Bring this issue to the voters"? It already has been!!! We live in a republic, not in a democracy. In a republic, issues are brought before representatives who the voters elect.

"Mark my words: this insult to caring Michigan citizens will not go unnoticed, and will not be forgotten."

"Caring Michigan citizens"? There you go again insisting that only your side cares about public safety.

* * *

Handgun Control, chaired by Sarah Brady, was founded in 1974 by Dr. Mark Borinsky and N.T. "Pete" Shields, two victims of gun violence. Based in Washington, D.C., HCI works with law enforcement, public health, religious, and community groups across the country to strengthen and protect federal, state and local gun control laws, but does not seek to ban all guns.

Not all, just most guns.

...HCI has more than 400,000 members nationwide,...

Why does the U.S. Newswire release state 500,000 members but your web site release states only 400,000 members? Which is it? Can't you even get the facts straight on the number of members your own organization has?

...making it the nationÍs largest citizensÍ gun control lobbying organization.

Which, by the way, is only one-tenth the size of the nation's largest citizens' gun rights lobby, the NRA.

...More information about HCI and its sister organization, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, can be found on our website at www.handguncontrol.org.
 
Sarah via HCI rolls out the same cut&paste press release in repsonse to yet another state deciding it is not smart to disarm the good guys.

They rolled out the same stale arguments in Florida 13 years ago. You would think that they, or the media which covers them, would wise up.

Fortunately we have so much university and government-level criminological data on our side that it has become very easy to counter their propaganda.

The only thing that needs to be done is to actually write it up and send it out.

I suggest Michiganders do just that, this weekend.


Rick
AZ
 
HCI hit it right on the head!

Actually, I think HCI might actually be on to something here!

"This bill would force the people of Michigan to wonder if the person sitting next to them in the movie theater, standing in line behind them in the grocery store, or waiting with them in line for the bus is carrying a loaded gun."

So, MAYBE the criminal will wonder if the person sitting next to them in the movie theater, standing in line behind them in the grocery store,... is armed. Isn't that the point?

Expect crime rates to drop in Michigan as criminals flee for warmer climes into areas with harsher gun controls where the flocks are fat and ready for shearing.
 
Sarah the bitch

Tortuga, One thousand atta-boys to you for your fine response. We need some of those "This is a gun free home" stickers to send to these .....ah.....jerks.
 
Every time I hear something from her...

I get a splitting headache. Add nausea, dizziness, and blurred vision too. Must be a dys-intellectual stroke.

Thanks for the strong medicine, guys!
 
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