HCI gets cought with hands in cookie jar!

ChrisMkIV

New member
I just love to be right! I have been standing on my soapbox here on the internet for years now in many differnet forums and chatrooms proclaiming how crooked and full of lies the HCI website was, and HCI in general.

Well, finaly, they had to pay the piper for there wrong doing to the U.S. Public.

The Washington Times caught an employee of the Marland Governors office sending false data from HCI's website to state's house ways and means commitee chairman.

The federal stats that were provided by HCI were nearly double that of what was on record at the Maryland State Police database numbers.

It took John Lott, one of the finest Gun Reasearchers in the country, based at Yale University, for HCI to finaly remove the false data.

I wish Mr Lott would have reviewed the entire HCI website, but of course, if that had happened, HCI webmasters would have been out of a job.

I love being right, and love to say "I told you, you would get yours Sara" but I am sure she and her demon spawn VPC will keep up the public misleading practice.


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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law abiding deprived the use of them" --Thomas Paine, 1775

www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html
 
Any sources? A story in the Washington Post? I'd like to read a little more on it, so that I can have some ammo for future debates.

Thanks,



------------------
Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
Bookkie, it's real. But it happened at least a month or two ago, during Maryland's debate over the new restrictions they passed then. The "mistake" was a listing of DOUBLE certain gun crime categories.

Now for the bad news--nobody but the NRA and TFL noticed. No headlines, no big stories. The news media quite simply doesn't want to show HCI in a bad light even if it can be proven, because their cause is so important.
 
Bookkie,
It is true, but was in the Wash. Times not the Post (that I'm aware of). Happened several month ago.

madison
 
here is part of Lotts testimony,
i remember the story about the 3x data being provided but can't find a link right now...

it is prolly somewhere here: http://mcdl.org/MD_Info/1999/ChildproofGunsReport.pdf

http://mcdl.org/MD_Info/2000/Lott_HB280_2000.htm
John Lott testimony in "opposition" to Maryland HB280/2000 - Tax Credit for Gun Safety Devices

The following is the testimony that was given by Professor John Lott in "opposition" to HB 280/2000 - Tax Credit for Gun
Safety Devices on Wednesday, February 16, 2000. Professor Lott is an articulate spokesman on this important subject.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Madam Chairwoman Hixson. I appreciate being invited here to testify by Delegate James Rzepkowski.

The tax credit proposal for gun locks is advocated as being able to reduce the rate of accidental gun deaths and suicides
among children as well as to make it more difficult to steal guns. I think that the proposed tax credit is bad law both because
the tax system is a clumsy and inefficient way to micromanage individual behavior and because it is bad public policy.

The bottom line for everyone is whether this type of law will save lives. But despite the obvious feel-good appeal of these
rules, gun locks and safe storage laws are more likely to cost lives than to save them.

Accidental gun deaths among children are fortunately much rarer than most people might believe, and I believe that I can
provide numbers that will answer questions raised earlier by Delegate Davis. Consider Maryland during the five years from
1992 to 1996. With over 1 million children under the age of fifteen, according to the Centers for Disease Control, there were
only two accidental gun deaths in that age range -- an annual rate of .4 deaths. Including any suicides committed with guns,
raises the average to 2.4 deaths per year. With 1.2 million adults in Maryland owning at least one gun in 1996, the
overwhelming majority of gun owners must be extremely careful or the figures would be much higher.

Studies consistently show that those who fire a gun accidentally are not your typical person. Shooters overwhelmingly have
problems with alcoholism, drugs, and long criminal histories, particularly arrests for violent acts. They are also
disproportionately involved in automobile crashes and are much more likely to have had their driver's license suspended or
revoked. The problem is that those who are most at risk are the least likely to obey the law. It is the low-risk, law-abiding
citizens who will.

Academic studies of safe storage and gun lock laws have also overwhelmingly found no evidence that they reduce the total
number of suicides even if a few studies have found some small reductions in suicides committed with guns. There are simply
too many ways to commit suicide. Thus, if people are intent on killing themselves, they will still do it, with or without a gun.

However, the law poses real risks. Locked guns are also not as readily accessible for defensive gun uses. Since criminals are
deterred by potentially armed victims, gun locks may therefore increase crime. Exacerbating this problem, many mechanical
locks (such as barrel or trigger locks) also require that the gun be stored unloaded. Loading a gun obviously requires yet more
time to respond to a criminal. For so-called "smart" guns serious reliability issues exist. Fingers that are slightly dirty or not
placed exactly on the finger print reading device may prevent the gun from firing.

Guns clearly deter criminals, with Americans using guns defensively over 2 million times each year -- five times more frequently
than the 430,000 times guns were used to commit crimes in 1997. 98 percent of the time simply brandishing the weapon is
sufficient to stop an attack. Even though the police are extremely important at reducing crime, they simply can't be there all
the time and virtually always end up at the crime scene after the crime has been committed. Having a gun is by far the safest
course of action when one is confronted by a criminal.

Even if one has young children, it does not make sense to lock up a gun if one lives in a high crime urban area. Laws, or for
that matter exaggerations of the risks involved in gun ownership, make people lock up their guns or cause them not to own a
gun in the first place, will result in more deaths, not fewer deaths.

Recent research that I have done, examining juvenile accidental gun deaths or suicides for all the states in the United States
from 1977 to 1996, found that safe storage laws had no impact on either type of death. However, what did happen was that
law-abiding citizens were less able to defend themselves against crime. The fifteen states that adopted safe storage laws
during this period faced over 300 more murders and 3,860 more rapes per year. Burglaries also increased dramatically.

There were several misleading statements made earlier here today. One involved the claim that has frequently been made by
the Clinton administration that 13 children a day die from guns. While the public service ads that frequently make this claim
fear exclusively children under 10, that is not representative of what this number represents not does the number justify guns
locks as President Clinton argues. The number represents all gun deaths (homicides, suicides, accidents, and justifiable
homicides) for people under the age of 20. Nine of those 13 deaths per day involve 17, 18, and 19 year olds and these deaths
overwhelmingly involved homicides in urban areas from gangs. 11 of the 13 deaths per day are 15 to 19 year olds. 1.9 of the
deaths per day are for those under age 15, and less than .4 deaths per day are for those under the age of 10. It is not
obvious why the number of 13 deaths per day provides useful information upon which to base a law encouraging people to
buy gun locks.

Another misleading claim is that the family gun is more likely to kill you or someone you know than to kill in self-defense. The
few studies yielding such numbers never actually inquired as to whose gun was used in the killing. Instead, if a household
owned a gun and if a person in that household or someone they knew was shoot to death while in the home, the gun in the
household was blamed. In fact, virtually all the killings in these studies were committed by guns brought in by an intruder. No
more than fourteen percent of the gun deaths can be attributed to the homeowner's gun. The very fact that most people
were killed by intruders also surely raises questions about why they owned guns in the first place and whether they had
sufficient protection. Also ignored is that 98 percent of the time when people use a gun defensively merely brandishing the
weapon is sufficient to stop an attack. The attacker is killed less than one out of every thousand times that a gun is used
defensively.

There are real risks to exaggerating the dangers of having a gun in the home. Laws frequently have unintended
consequences. Sometimes even the best intentioned ones cost lives.
 
I'm waiting for the surprise to wear of so I can calm down....... Oh wait, there was none! :mad:

Liar Liar pants on Fire!

------------------
Happiness is a smoking gun, and a dead criminal!

.308 Holes, make invisible souls!
 
there it is from March:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>By Margie Hyslop
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


ANNAPOLIS * Gov. Parris N.
Glendening's office forwarded
inaccurate information from Handgun
Control Inc. to state legislators,
doubling federal statistics on 1997 gun
deaths in Maryland.
A Glendening legislative staffer sent
inflated figures, apparently taken from
Handgun Control's Web site, to House
Ways and Means Committee Chairman
Sheila Hixson. They listed firearms
deaths in Maryland by victim's age and
type of shooting.
Handgun Control Inc.'s research
director, Douglas Weil, said staffers
used data from the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention's National
Center for Health Statistics to create the
chart.
But Handgun Control listed a total of
1,408 firearms deaths for Maryland *
almost double the 710 Maryland firearm
deaths that the CDC reported.
Mr. Weil said the erroneous
information was generated inadvertently
during turnover in Handgun Control's
research staff. Confusing notes left by a
researcher who hadn't finished
compiling the data caused some "double
counting," Mr. Weil said.
Glendening spokesman Mike Morrill
said the governor and his staff have
been saying that about 700 people die in
Maryland every year by firearms *
roughly the number reported by the
CDC, although they get their figures
from the Maryland State Police.
But a Glendening staffer, in a reply
to a committee request, supplied the
numbers, not knowing they were wrong,
from a source that "has been reliable"
and noted their origin * Handgun
Control Inc. * Mr. Morrill said.
He said the staffer did not know the
numbers Handgun Control had posted
were wrong until a reporter inquired
about the letter.
The staffer has now started to inform
committee members about the error, Mr.
Morrill said. Mr. Weil said the error
was made for several states.
"We don't know if one person pulled
that information off our Web site or
more," Mr. Weil said.
Handgun Control pulled the
erroneous information off its Web site
about an hour after Yale University
professor John Lott * a gun-rights
advocate * notified them of the
discrepancy on March 2, Mr. Weil said.
A check revealed the information had
been pulled from Handgun Control's
Web site, but the only message said the
page was temporarily unavailable.
No message appeared on the site
yesterday afternoon warning that
information posted earlier was
erroneous.
Although Mr. Weil said the
information was posted for no more than
two days before it was pulled March 2,
the letter Mr. Glendening's office sent to
the committee with the apparent Web
site attachments was dated Feb. 21 and
stamped received Feb. 23.
Delegate Carmen Amedori, Carroll
County Republican, said the public
needs to know about Handgun Control's
dissemination of false information since
the organization has done little to
correct the record.
"They should be ashamed," said Mrs.
Amedori who serves on the House
Judiciary Committee, which is
scheduled to hear legislation that would
legislate "childproof smart guns" this
week. "Kids are not piling up like cords
of wood."
Statistics the National Rifle
Association supplied yesterday in
response to a reporter's query matched
the CDC's data for 1997 firearm deaths
in Maryland. Suzin Schneider
contributed to this report.[/quote]
 
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