Have Berdan Primers done it to me again?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
A while back I fell foul of discarded brass. Whilst I thought I was getting loads of .308 brass for free, which I was, I hadn't checked the primer type and it cost me a decapping pin.

Now, I recently found a supply of Finnish milsurp .308 cartridges that are a third of the cost of the cheapest over the counter options available and 40% of the cost of a single reloaded case. Heck they cost less than the Amax bullet that I'd seat in the case.

So the other day I shot 20 to see how they performed. Then I went home. This morning I sat bolt upright in bed with one thought: "Are those milsurps Berdan primer cases?" They were. This worries me because I remember beople saying that these are corrosive and I haven't cleaned my rifle since the range trip. I usually do, but this time, I just put the two rifles away.

So are Berdans still corrosive and might I have damaged my rifle as a result of not cleaning once I got home?
 
The answer is... not necessarily.

I would definitely assume the primers were corrosive considering it's foreign milsurp and the price being so low. That probably means it's pretty old and most likely corrosive. I never play the guessing game with ammo unless I have an original box telling me specifically it's non-corrosive. You still have time! Clean 'em out!
 
Cleaning as I type!! Anyway to tell? Any signs n the bore I should look for?

The problem is that I knew some Berdan primers are corrosive. I know milsurp often uses berdan and I knew this was milsurp, but having always fired boxer primered rounds in my gun, whether bought or loaded, met I didn't put two and two and two together until this morning in bed!!
 
I've heard it the salts go to work pretty fast but I think within a few days is okay. Some liberal use of water should take care of it. I wouldn't worry about it until you can actually take a look down there. Chances are if you caught it quick enough you might not have anything to worry about. If left untouched, it will rust and start pitting badly. It's done for at that point, unless it's a cheap old rifle and not that big of a deal for you. Many Mosins are still enjoyed today with pitted out barrels.
 
It's not like corrosive ammo blasts the barrel with acid. Corrosive primers leave a layer of potassium chloride behind that attracts water. So you're get a nice corrosion promoting brine in your barrel over time. A couple of wet patches, followed by some denatured alcohol patches to promote drying, and you should be fine.
 
You can find Berdan primers for reloading if you still have all that brass.

You need a special tool to remove the fired primers, and it's more time consuming, but it's doable

If your gun was hurt, it would be easy to see the pitting and rust, so I doubt there's any damage done
 
Step 1. Calm Down! You caught it in time.

Step 2. Clean with Water based solvents. Any solvent will work, just water works the fastest. I pour boiling water down the bore of my Mosin then swab with Hoppe's after I fire corrosive.

Step 3. Oil it. Run 2 patches through the bore, 1 oiled, 1 dry.

Step 4. You're done.


As long as you don't wait an entire week, you're fine.
 
Well, now is the time to tell me if I have to go back and start again as I've read these additional posts only now, after having already put the gun away.

I simply cleaned as I would usually: Hoppe's No.9, leave for 10 min, Brass bore brush: back and forth a dozen times, then patches through the bore.

If I need to go back with water, let me know now!!

And if I do need water each and every time I shoot these cartridges, I think I will leave milsurp well alone from now on!!
 
For foreign military surplus I ALWAYS clean as if it's corrosive and someone advertised it incorrectly.

Prevents nasty surprises that way.


If the ammo is corrosive primed, Hoppes No. 9 is NOT formulated for removing corrosive priming residue.

It simply doesn't have enough water in it to do the job reliably. At one time I did, and had chemicals (now banned) that would remove corrosive salts.

But no longer.
 
Berdan and Boxer refers to the physical construction of the primer and has nothing to do with what pyrotechnic material they are loaded with.
There are noncorrosive Berdans and corrosive Boxers and vice versa.
In fact, some very early noncorrosive ammunition was loaded with a Swiss formula in Berdan primers.

What age is this Finnish ammunition? I could not find any mention of it in US sources.
 
I'd just pour some boiling water down the barrel. Then dry patch, then oiled patch, then dry patch. As you have most of the fouling out from when you used the hoppe's 9.
 
Military surplus isnt as good a deal as it once was, nor is it as available. Here anyways. Those "good old days" are long gone.

I used to buy and shoot a lot of it, and if I should still happen on some, if the price is right, I dont have a problem with it, as long as its clean and in good shape. Not all milsurp is corrosive, and these days, unless its old, its probably not. Whats the head stamp date on yours?

Ive had some pretty nasty corrosive stuff over the years, and never really had any issues with it. Then again, I clean my guns after every outing, and Im pretty anal about that. Im always amazed when I hear people dont clean their guns after they shoot them. It seems to be "OK" these days not to. I guess its an "era" thing. I grew up in the era of corrosive, and cleaning our guns after shooting them, was considered a must, and constantly drummed into our heads from day one.

If you can get the ammo cheap, and it doesnt have storage issues, and you dont care about reloading it, Id say have at it. Just clean your gun well right after youre done shooting. No biggie.
 
I clean my guns after every outing, and Im pretty anal about that. Im always amazed when I hear people dont clean their guns after they shoot them. It seems to be "OK" these days not to.
Click to expand...

Well, typically so did I, but sometimes life just gets in the way and I've had to leave to the next day or the weekend.
This has become quite the case since the little one was born. Incidentally, my range trips are far less frequent since then too, so my time constraints that both leave my guns dirty also mean they are dirty less often. Every cloud.....

On the plus side, VV powders that I use in my reloaded ammo (both revolvers and .308) is very clean burning. All I have to remove is a grey haze from the cylinder face or bolt face.
 
I have had only ONE dance with corrosive primers and it was plenty enough to keep me away forever, with traces of surface rust within 24 hours.

I'm a handloader, my life is far better when uncorrupted by that stuff. More power to those who don't mind the corrosive - we'll never be competing buyers. :)
 
Mind was Czech and Russian 8x57JS, both from the mid-1950s. I also got FTF's on some of them, which goes against what I've read from corrosive priming -- I was under the impression that while the corrosive primers were hell for that obvious reason, at the very LEAST they were extremely steady-going and lasted forever, partially or somewhat due to that priming compound.

Not the case for me. I shot maybe 20-30 of them through a K98k and -ALL- of the rest I used my intertia puller on them and kept the component slugs. Gave the brass to a buddy with full disclosure.
 
I think a lot of the issue with some of the older surplus, was how it was stored. Improper storage probably causes more problems than anything else.

I recently ran into that problem with some old reloads, and some Malaysian 5.56 I got back int he 90's, that was dated in the early 80's. The powder degraded, causing the brass cases to fail. Some without being fired.

I know the reloads were stored in a garage that wasnt temp controlled, and it got very warm in the summer months there. Not sure about the 5.56, but after seeing some of the reports about flight 370, and how the flight recorder batteries were stored, and the fact the ammo was only a little over 10 years old when released as surplus, I sort of put 2 and 2 together.

Still, it seemed fine when I first got it, and at $150/2000 round case (if I remember right), was a good deal. Im still shooting remnants of the last can of it now, and only really started to see regular brass failure issues in the past couple of years.

I had a bunch of British 9mm back in the early 90's that was sold "as is" out of SGN, due to FTF's and hangfires. It was cheap, and for the most part, worked OK. We had some duds, but no hangfires. I had more duds in current Wolf 7.62x39 than I did that stuff.

Cheap blasting ammo was readily available back then, and a lot of that was old military surplus from all over. Not all of it was junk, and some of it was actually very good. I still have a couple of cases of Santa Barbara 7.62x51 fmj, dated 78, that shoots like match ammo, and almost always out shot the current at the time USGI stuff we had. Wish there was more of that floating around, especially at the $125-150/1000 we were paying.
 
I too just pour a kettle full of boiling water down the pipe and all over the bolt. I have been meaning to experiment with taking out a berdan primer and drilling aflash hole to see if it will accept a boxer prime.
 
Well...
Getting that danged old Berdan primer out of there is a royal pain in the tuckus in the first place. Then you've got to drill out the anvil, which is part of the Berdan primed brass. And you need a pocket of not only the right DIAMETER, but the proper depth also. If it's the wrong depth, it'll either not light off when we hit it, or it'll leave us with high primers which is an inadvertent detonation risk. And then you need a flash hole of the proper diameter and that diameter certainly matters.

Now, I suppose if we're talking 40, 50 or SIXTY THOUSAND PSI max, we're probably also hoping that the amount of brass we've drilled out and then punched a flash hole through has left us the proper amount of metal to contain those fireworks as designed...

I'm absolutely sure there are folks that HAVE done this, probably to some degree of success. Of course, we have guys who have also pounded out the firing pin hit in USED primers and attempted to make their own SHTF home-made primers using strike-anywhere match tips. Much like we've had folks who enjoyed the board game "Mousetrap" and thoroughly enjoy any Rube Goldberg they've ever seen.

I think it's a fine and even interesting exercise. But I've got ammo to make! :p And any leftover free time after shooting, cleaning guns, making ammo and such... well, I burn that making witty comments on gun forums. ;)
 
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