Have any of you guys actually been in a gunfight?

M

MaNiFeSt

New member
I only ask because while reading this board i am amazed at the vast knowledge of its members. People debating over which is the best caliber weapon, what is best for CCW, what kind of ammunition to carry, the effectiveness of laser sites, etc... and i was thinking, does all this really matter? i mean honestly... if god forbid there was a situation where u had to use deadly force, do you really think you'd have time to think, "oh ****, i wish i packed my .45 instead of my .22." or "man this laser site was a waste of money."

to me it seems if anyone were in this situation, you'd be scared so ****less that it probably wouldnt matter in the slightest. I'm sure there are marines with significant experience in live fire that post here on board, but i'm talking about everyday life situations..

i've never been in a live fire situation and i pray that i never will be, but if it ever did happen, i dont think i'd have time to bitch about.."damn! i should have bought that 9mm instead of this .45cal!" The only thing that would be on my mind is drawing my gun and stoping whomever is trying to hurt me. everything else comes in a very distant dismal 2nd place.
 
Ahh, yes, but during all these days and nights leading up to it.... you do have time to worry about it, grump about it, read about it, think about it, ask about it, and even change your mind about it!!! :D
 
Um... not really sure what you are getting at here.

A lot of the conversation going on here is speculative, true,
but drawing on people's experiences.

If you ever empty a 10 round magazine of .22s into an attacker....
and he succeeds in sticking a bowie knife in your belly before he
lays down quietly.... whether you "think about" stopping power at
the time, I'm quite sure you will consider the matter as you recover
from your wounds.

What may seem like self indulgent imaginings, becomes real relevent
as you read stories of others who have tried a mode of carry, a
particular caliber, or a particular approach to a threatening situation,
and have avoided a fight, won a fight, survived with pure luck, or
barely avoided being killed.

It is important to do these "mind experiments" in order to prepare
your mindset. What ever your equipment, whatever your training,
if you do not prepare your mindset, survival in a gunfight will be more
a function of your opponent's lack of skill, than anything else.

Training is both physical and mental, If you remain properly in
condition Yellow, transitioning past "OH, ****!" to "I know what to
do, here we go!" is what will make the difference between winning a fight,
losing it or a tie. When it is YOUR life a tie is not good enough.

EC
 
The first step is to take a really good combat shooting course...Jeff Cooper was asked how can you remain calm and cool when someone is shooting at you. Of course he answered that people do it all the time . But those that do are the survivors !! Those that panic are doomed . It's like driving an SUV. A local trooper said that most of the single car accidents on the interstate are SUVs. How do you flip an SUV ? you have a problem [maybe something on the road like a deer] you respond in panic by yanking the wheel hard over. That creates another problem so you react ,in panic again,by yanking the wheel hard over in the opposite direction .That will flip an SUV !!!
 
Have any of you guys actually been in a gunfight?
Click to expand...

I have. Do a search here, especially in the Tactics section, and it will become apparent that quite a few members here have. The real question is, does that short period of terror and the hurdles afterwards make any of us more of an "expert"? My answer to that is an emphatic no. It does not make any of us special or more knowlegable about anything except ourselves. It does not mean that we were christened with some mystic knowlege. What it means is that we survived. It does not mean that we are any more or any less likely to survive if we are in a similar position again. If anything it means we practice avoidance much more often, and for myself, it brought a belief that the shooter matters a thousand times more than the gun he uses.
 
Yes, and Xavier put it exactly right. I might just add, that if it should happen to you, you might find that you don't even have time to be scared ****less.
 
Drawn three times and shot once. This was all about 30 years ago while working in high risk jobs. Having such experience doesn't make you an expert on anything other than maybe what it feels like to have your heart in your throat.
 
I have also drawn thrice, fired once. I would not try to extrapolate from those experiences to everyone/every event.
 
Yes, there is "luck factor" in surving an encounter of arms, but if you don't have your $hi+ together, expecially if you're engaged in more encounters, the "Luck Factor" is going to go down and you'll probably get hurt or killed. It's best to have good training and ability to give good death.
And Gentlemen, there's a lot to be said for experience, although many here who will never have it, don't belive that experience means anything. Just typical of C3s from what I've seen.

Jungle Work
 
Thank God I have never had to pull the trigger with a gun pointed at some one, but

I have pulled a gun on some one. He had stolen my neighbors car that morning and that evening he was getting gas at a gas station less than 1/2 mile from our addition. This was a resedintal ariea and only gas station for 2 miles (which goes to show you the stupidest people in the world are crooks).
I pulled my gun out and waited for him to emerge from the store and as soon as I saw him throw somthing into the back seat and start to open the drivers door I grabed his arm and showed him the gun in the other hand, making sure he had no way to grab it.
I walked him to the door of the store and made him lie down and asked the owner to call the poliece.
The thing that I noticed was that as soon as he saw the gun he all but pooped his pants and gave up without a fight. You cant count on that if the other person has a gun, lets face it they are stupid and will do stupid things, it there criminals they already prooved there stupid.
I see it this way, If I have the cause, the reasion and the personal obligation to pull a gun on some one, be it to protect myself or a love one or an innocent bystander I MUST do it being ready to take another life. I hope that never happens but since one in 4 people are robbed in some way in this world the chances are good it will happen.
Was I ready to take another life that night, no I was not!
Would I had he threatend my life, I dont know.
Would I had he threatend another life, I hope to God I would.
But in this case having a gun ended the confrentation.
But if you are carring and you say that you cannot take a life if yours was in danger, then you better leave it at home, becouse some bad guy will take it from you and kill you with it. You would be safer without it than with it.
But to end this if your sure in your mind that you could take another life, and feel like a machoman walking around with a gun on your hip, then do us all a favor and leave the gun at home becouse the rest of us would be safer with out you on the street.
 
drawn twice..never fired(Once was shucking a pump shotgun in a campgroundwhen some miscreants were trying to steal a neighbor's 4 wheeler). Truthfully I think the best piece of self defense learnin' I got was when I was taught Jeff Cooper's (?) color scale of awareness, since then I have been more aware of my surroundings and have not found myself in bad situations.

I do not want to have the burden of knowing I killed someone on my conscience, but I do not want to have the burden of me or a family member being hurt/killed even less.
 
Chuck Taylor

I was able to attend 4 of Chuck Taylor's Small Arms Academy classes. Let me tell you something: Education from someone who has been there and done it a few times helps get a classes attention. Chuck spent a good number of heated moments in Vietnam. He learned a lot there and added it to present day knowledge and ability. Chuck served two tours in NAM as an Airborne Ranger. He serves an important part of training military, LEO's and civilian sectors. If you want a rewarding and educational class filled with great ideas and self-emprovement give his academy a try. I am very glad I did and plan to attend again someday soon. You can read about him at:www.chucktaylorasaa.com

best of luck....

ps...... I never had to result in ending an attackers life.....the sight of me being ready and willing seemed to work to my advantage. Thank God and with his good grace that will remain unchanged....
 
MaNiFeSt

You're not alone! I have wondered about that many times.

In spite of what some say, speculation is not reality. It may be fun to speculate, but that's all it is. I don't share my experiences in those areas with anyone here, because they probably won't be duplicated and stuff like that sounds like allot of chest banging, and turns folks off.

Most of my guns are 9mm. I still have a couple of my .357 wheelguns, but only carry them in the woods. I've used everything down from a .44 Mag and I have thought about buying a .45...one of these days, maybe.

When I was young shootin wasn't any fun unless the recoil blew your arm over your head.

In the meantime, I don't lose any sleep about my carry, or my longevity.
 
Yes, twice, but apparently the other guys didn't know it was a gunfight and violated rule number 1.

1. In a gunfight, have a gun.

as a result, fortunately, no shots fired.
 
I pulled my gun out and waited for him to emerge from the store and as soon as I saw him throw somthing into the back seat and start to open the drivers door I grabed his arm and showed him the gun in the other hand, making sure he had no way to grab it.
Click to expand...

You can do that in Indiana?
 
last count I have been in a half dozen, having enjoyed an active life. A couple cant count as gunfights as the adversary was armed with a knife and an impact weapon.
Real life fights are won by pretty ordinary weapons. body positioning and marksmanship win fights and gear that always works. The .45 isnt a little better than the .38 and 9mm but about four times better. The .357 Magnum produces gruesome results. (from seeing lots of after action stuff in 23 years of police work)
standard gear, cool head, good tactics and marksmanship.
 
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