Hatchet Job-2A is why Mexican gangs have auto weapons

Second Amendment to Blame?

:mad::mad: FROM THE ANTI-GUNNERS AT ABC



U.S. Guns Arming Mexican Drug Gangs; Second Amendment to Blame?
Officials: More Than 90 Percent of Weapons Used by Mexico's Drug Gangs Come From the U.S.
By BRIAN ROSS and RICHARD ESPOSITO
April 22, 2008—



U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.

"It's a war going on in Mexico, and these types of firearms are the weapons of war for them," said Bill Newell, the special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division of the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which has primary law enforcement jurisdiction for investigating gun trafficking to Mexico.

"It's virtually impossible to buy a firearm in Mexico as a private citizen, so this country is where they come," said Newell.

But U.S. efforts to stop the smuggling of tens of thousands of guns to Mexico, including high-powered assault weapons, have been hampered by lenient American gun laws and the Bush administration's failure to give priority to anti-gun smuggling efforts, officials tell ABC News for a report Tuesday on ABC News' "World News With Charles Gibson."

Watch the full report on "World News With Charles Gibson" at 6:30 p.m. ET.

President Bush said today at a press conference that Mexican President Felipe Calderon again raised the issue of guns at their meeting in New Orleans.

Mexico's strict gun laws are being subverted by the easy availability of weapons in the U.S., the Mexican attorney general, Eduardo Medina-Mora Icaza, told ABC News. "The Second Amendment," said the attorney general, "is certainly not designed to arm and give fire power to organized crime abroad."

More than 3,400 people have been killed by the drug cartels in the last 15 months, 2,000 of them law enforcement officials, according to the Mexican attorney general.

U.S. and Mexican officials say they have traced most of the thousands of high-powered weapons seized from the drug cartels to gun dealers in Texas, California and Arizona.

Assault weapons made in China and Eastern Europe, resembling the AK-47, have become widely and cheaply available in the U.S. since Congress and the Bush administration refused to extend a ban on such weapons in 2004.

Under federal gun laws, gun dealers are not required to report multiple purchases of such weapons because they are classified as rifles.

"If you were to go into a gun store and buy 20 of these, there is no requirement by the gun dealer to fill out a multiple sales form," said the ATF's Newell.

The drug cartels' weapons of choice include variants of the AK-47, .50-caliber sniper rifles and a Belgian-made pistol called the "cop killer" or "mata policia" because of its ability to pierce a bulletproof vest.

"It's in high demand by your violent drug cartels, their assassins in Mexico," said Newell of the ATF. The gun can fire a high-powered round used in a rifle.

An ABC News investigation found the "mata policia" and a wide range of assault weapons prominently displayed at gun stores along the border in Texas, the state providing the most weapons to the drug cartels, according to the ATF.

Under Texas and federal law, there is no waiting period for the purchase of such weapons and no restriction on how many can be bought at a time.

U.S. officials say there is little they can do to go after licensed gun dealers because large purchases, dozens or hundreds at a time, are legal for U.S. citizens and legal immigrants with an INS green card unless a gun dealer suspects the purchase is being made for someone else.

ATF agents say legitimate gun dealers will often report suspicious activities, but that a small but significant number looks the other way.

"I have personally worked cases where gun dealers have willfully allowed hundreds of guns to leave their gun store knowing that they were going into the wrong hands," said Newell.

While the Bush administration has asked for an additional $100 million to combat drug violence on the border, only $948,000, less than one percent, has been allocated to the ATF under the White House proposal.

"We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell.

"It sure shows a lack of concern on our part for this piece of the problem," said Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., who has introduced legislation to give the ATF an additional $15 million to improve border efforts.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4695848&page=1


Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures
 
More of the same, from the usual sources

Listen to any of the politicians from DC, NYC, Boston, or any other bug city with strict gun control laws telling you why those laws don't work. Their answer is always some variation of the fact that in the surrounding areas guns are easy to get. They never seem to mention the fact that the people who are supplying their fair cities with all these guns are commiting crimes by doing so. Guess they think that a little thing like a law against something isn't enough to stop people. Hipocracy at its finest.

So now we have some more of the whiners (aided and abetted by the press) telling us that the gun problem in Mexico is because of guns coming from the USA. Well, duh. Mexico doesn't make very many (if any) guns. They get all of them from somewhere else! And, last time I checked it wasn't legal for illegal aliens to buy guns. Nor was it legal for non FFL holders to "deal" in firearms, and selling large numbers of guns is "dealing" in firearms. Another crime. People legally buying guns from FFL dealers and selling them to Mexico is another crime. Don't put any real stock in them saying "we traced these guns back to these dealers", EVERY gun goes through a licensed dealer at the beginning of its travels. Even stolen guns, unless they are lifted straight off the factory loading dock go to a dealer on their way to being sold.

And notice the picture with the article. An M60 machine gun! Not exactly the type of firearm commonly sold in gunshops in the US. Quite the piece of intellectual honesty there.

I suppose the Mexican problem with US guns is only fair, criminals down there send drugs up here, so criminals up here send guns down there. What exactly are they complaining about?
 
It would of course be easier just to infringe on the rights of law abiding American citizens than to accept accountability for decades of failed immigration policy and poor border security. How many of these same politicians also support amnesty for illegal aliens or expect us to provide health care or college tuition for them?

Assault weapons made in China and Eastern Europe, resembling the AK-47, have become widely and cheaply available in the U.S. since Congress and the Bush administration refused to extend a ban on such weapons in 2004.
Click to expand...

I bought my Rommie in 2004 a couple months before the AWB sunsetted for $300, shipped to my FFL. The things certainly haven't gotten any cheaper...

"If you were to go into a drugstore and buy 20 of these, there is no requirement by the gun dealer to fill out a multiple sales form," said the ATF's Newell.
Click to expand...

What drugstore would that be? If by "drugstore" you mean a dingy meth lab in a trailer park, then perhaps. But a Value Rite or Walgreens? Not hardly. My grandpa bought his first rifle from a drug store on credit at age 11. But those days are long gone. This ATF agent knows it, too.

The drug cartels' weapons of choice include variants of the AK-47, .50-caliber rifles converted to automatic firing capability and a Belgian-made pistol called the "cop killer" or "mata policia" because of its ability to pierce a bulletproof vest.
Click to expand...

Considering most .50 caliber rifles are bolt actions, that would be a neat trick. And if someone wants to take a Dremel tool to an $8000 Barrett solely to achieve a decrease in practical accuracy, I don't see why we'd ever frown on that from these characters. The Belgian "cop killer" has to be the FN 5.7. A nice spin, perhaps, considering the media conveniently neglected to mention that the armor piercing ammunition is illegal for civilian sale in the US.

And to think, all those millions of dollars of tax payer money goes to dishonest, manipulative, power-mongering morons like this Newell character rather than to legitimate causes--like actually forming an effective policy on illegal immigration and securing the border. I say give that $15 million to the Border Patrol and tell the ATF to get bent.
 
What the hell is a high powered assault weapon? lol :D


I always laugh when I hear loaded terms like that.





MTMilitiaman- Maybe he means .50 beowulf?
 
Again here we see the connection between drug prohibition and victim disarmament laws. As usual, instead of simply eliminating the problems caused by drug prohibition by abolishing drug prohibition, the problems created by drug prohibition are being blamed on the lack of victim disarmament laws. And this will obviously result in stricter victim disarmament laws.

In other words - if you support drug prohibition, you support gun control.

Also, it is irritating when politicians blame high crime rates on the fact that their laws are "circumvented" by people bringing in firearms from outside jurisdictions. This ignores the fact that the crime rates in these other jurisdictions are always much lower.
 
I don't believe it is from drug prohibition but from the lack of border security. They are able to get into the country illegally to get the guns illegally.
 
They'll be able to get guns over the borders regardless of how strong security is. It's simply impossible to secure that much land. A much better plan is to remove the incentives for bringing the guns over in the first place.
 
I fail to see what the 2nd amendment has to do with Mexicans smuggling weapons; that would be a border control/law enforcement problem.

Sounds like ole Charles Gibson is up to his usual crap. :mad:
 
If the border were secured from illegals and drugs and mexican officials were not corrupt and didnt help to smuggle in the drugs and weapons we wouldnt be talking about this.
 
Yup & we could get the $ for this by shooting hardcore criminals like murderers, rapists & child molestors instead of giving them free room & board for the rest of their lives.
 
2,000 Mexican LEOs killed in the last 15 months

Looks to me like there is a little bit of a bigger problem than where they get guns from. Like why they seem to use them so much against their police! Anybody think that might be a more important problem?

Hey, any of you researchers out there, how many US LEOs have been killed (by drug cartels or anyone else) in the past 15 months? Sombody come up with some numbers (I don't know how/or where to look), and then lets look at the number of guns in this country. I would be willing to bet that we have a lot more guns, and a lot fewer LEOs killed than in Mexico.

Sure, some legal gun dealers are going to look the other way, there are always some folks who will skirt the law and avoid moral responsibility in order to make money, but really, even though there are not multiple purchase reporting requirements for rifles, (unlike handguns), when somebody buys dozens of AKs at a time, and they are not a legal dealer, you gotta wonder.

Yes, that article sure did pick and choose which portions of gun laws they want us to know about and which ones they don't mention, and they made a very nice sounding board for an ATF agent beating his drum (and his chest) to get more funding. And that is the only way they can get more money, is to have a "problem" to deal with. Gun running to Mexico is an old and time honored tradition among certain groups of people, and like rum running and drug smuggling, it isn't going to go away, until the demand for the product does. As long as there is profit to be made, someone will try to make it, no matter what the laws say. I wonder why the Canadians aren't saying they have a bad problem with US guns, after all, they have a much longer border with us than Mexico does.
 
Yup & we could get the $ for this by shooting hardcore criminals like murderers, rapists & child molestors instead of giving them free room & board for the rest of their lives.
Click to expand...

Interesting angle. :)

Perhaps our taxes would go down if all law-abiding citizens (99% of the population, rather than the current 0.05%) bought a handgun and obtained a CCW permit.

The resulting casualties from justified self defense would rapidly crash the prison population and result in drastic budget slashes in Prison budgets, law enforcement budgets, and probably welfare budgets.

Could we get taxes back down to even 10% of income? Wow... a neat concept!
 
If they closed all the gun stores near the border those guys in Mex. making tons and tons of money would just turn around and get their stuff elsewhere, like probably Cuba would be willing to deal, stolen military arms from some of those other countries etc. They could fly or boat them in just as easily as they transport their drugs all over. They probably can buy ordnance from the corrupt elements of the military and police down there too. There are lots of guns in the hands of druggies in Columbia as well as their revolutionaries and I don't think they are coming to Texas to get them.
 
From what I understand there are some great collector pieces in Mexico. Lots of Colts, 1900, 1902, 1905, 1909, 1911 pistols.

I'd love to see what's hidden out in some of these abuelo's and tio's closets.
 
It's not 'smuggling.' It's simply the migration of firearms to a region where they know they will find work. Our 'lax' guns laws are not the problem. The Mexican government must accept this migration for what it is, good guns just trying to find good work. This in not criminal, is it?

However, since I respect the necessity of a nation to secure it's borders even from an imagined threat, I would fully support the Mexican government if it were to close it's borders and heavily patrol them in order to keep anyone from crossing.:rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top