Has Hirtenberger "Fried" Your Bore?

G

Guyon

New member
In another recent thread regarding the merits of PMP vs. Hirtenberger surplus ammo, one TFL'er provides the following report:

I would not use Hirt in a bolt gun..its hot and will fry your bore....shop here had sold it then had to compensate several people who fried up the bore on there bolt guns..hirt is and was made for the Hk91
Click to expand...

Another TFL'er reports that at least two types of Hirtenberger exist--the regular 147 gr. stuff and 190 gr. match ammo. At Tennessee Guns, this 190 gr. ammo is said to be FOR bolt action guns.

My question: Has anyone here "fried" their bore (whatever this means) by shooting regular 147 gr. Hirtenberger in a .308Win bolt action?

My understanding is that it's perfectly safe to shoot the milsurp stuff since commercial .308Win loads actually have higher specs. But I also have read that you have to be careful when reloading the milsurp stuff because the brass has a different thickness than the commmercial .308.

What do you know about this?

BTW, the other thread in question is here:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=87368
 
Like I said in the other thread, I really can't confirm or deny that Hirt will fry a bore. Mostly due to the fact that I can't get myself to pay extra for Hirt when there are so many other surplus 308's out there for much less.

In my opinion though, I don't see how it could possibly happen. It'd take a lot of heat to 'fry' a bore.

If you consider how long it takes to heat up a piece of barrel to the point where it starts to fry (red hot), I don't know how the little piece of gun powder inside the 147gr Hirt fired at the slower cyclic rate of a bolt action could possibly ruin it.

In another example, I've taken all kinds of different types of ammo (hot reloads, slow reloads, surplus this, surplus that,.....) and run it threw my former lightweight barrel of my AR15. I've run 60 rounds through it so fast that I couldn't hit a target only 25yds away.
20years later, the bore is still crisp. I traded it to a guy just recently, and he loves it.
 
Well ... there IS a lot of heat and there are some very high temperatures inside a bore. I'm sure that it is not just the burning of the powder, but also the intense friction caused by forcing the bullet through the rifling that accounts for the heat. I can see how you can "fry" a bore ... you don't have to heat up the entire barrel ... just the corners on the rifling. Then you scrub those softened corners away with a projectile and presto! you don't have the rifling that you once had. Now ... that being said, I still can't understand why a round would be ok in an auto and not for a bolt gun. I guess you could say that governments might not care a whole lot about barrel life and therefore might use abusive ammo ... but, again the .308WIN commercial stuff ought to be the abusive stuff ... not any mil-spec mil-surp stuff.

The basic question of this thread, however is: Has anyone actually burned out a .308 barrel with mil-surp? ... reasonable quantities ... we aren't talking 25k rounds of it :eek:
 
Full auto fire with virtually any ammo will fry a bore. I suppose that sustained rapid fire with no cooling off period may not be optimal for your barrel either. Too bad Gale McMillan isn't here.
 
i feel like a cheap slut on a staurday night...all I stated is what has happened to a few guys here...and I really can not believe that 190 grain will produce adaquate results in a 12 RH twist...its just too heavy for the slow twist....
 
HK1: I'm not trying to f**k anyone like a Saturday night slut here. There's no animosity or belittlement in my post. My motivations are simply to verify whether or not the 147 gr. Hirtenberger is safe for consumption in my Remington 700. I bought up quite a bit of this stuff along with some PMP. However, to date, I've mostly shot the PMP, and I've only put a handful of the Hirtenberger rounds through the rifle. I want to know if I can fire the rest of this stuff without damage to my barrel.

If I didn't respect your second-hand report at all, I'd just dismiss it, and that would be that. But notice that I do respect it at least enough to inquire further. I'd like to hear more about these fried barrels. What exactly was the damage (what do you mean by "fried")? How many barrels are we talking about here? Were the shooters just sending round after round through a bolt action without any attention to cooling down time? (Anyone can mess up a barrel if he heats it up enough.)

Like I said, everything I read up until your post suggested that the Hirtenberger is safe for bolt actions in .308Win. But I would like to hear from others who've shot a lot of this ammo in a bolt action.
 
Don't feel bad!!! I think that your comment probably rattled a few cages, cause MANY cases of Hirtenberger .308 (most likely the 147 grain type) are sitting in the inventories of a lot of bolt (or lever in my case) gun owners! I don't feel bad about this thread ... but I REALLY like my .308 BLR and I REALLY don't want to shoot out the barrel prematurely.
Take care and have fun shooting.
Saands
 
Ok....I just had to go look...

Where the heck are you guys getting this "Surplus 147. Gr." stuff?

I just went and checked, and all my Hirtenberger is marked...

20 Cartridges
.308 WINCH.
150 gr.
SOFT POINT

Warning: (yadda, yadda, yadda)

Lot Code 90014...(yr/dy/mh?) in tan cardboard boxes, with those purty little pink labels...

It looks like new production, not surplus...and I've had it for most of the last 10 years...

...and, I've shot the piss out of it! I started with 4 cases, and I'm down to a little less than two now...

Sure, it's a little "warm", but no more than good Brazilian or, "Woohoo", Yugoslavian...

And yes, I've used it in both bolt and semi's with no ill effects noted....an "Urban myth" sez I... :rolleyes:
 
Isn't the 308 Hirtenberger ...308 NATO, if so isn't it less power than 308 Winchester. If it's less... how can it damage a bolt gun that was designed as the 308 Win?
 
Melvin-

You obviously don't have "military surplus" ammo if it's soft point. The military standard for 7.62 is 147 gr. ball, and Hirt makes just that. Soft point would be illegal for military use.
 
Obviously... ;)

I little research showed that Hirtenberger does indeed make a 147. Gr. "Military ball" round that is sold as a "surplus" round.

I have no experience with said "surplus" round.

Comments retracted.

(Try Chinese...lol) :eek:
 
Guys: Perhaps the question on bore damage or extra wear with Hirtenberger ammo has to do with the steel in the bullet. I read somthing to this effect but have no way to prove or disprove it.
 
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