Has Anyone Necked a 45 ACP/Super Down to 38 Yet?

E

EQUALIZER

New member
Probably more like .356, but you know what I'm talking about.....the 38 Casull. I still plan to go with a 9x23, but for a moment, considered going a similar route with the 38 Casull. The ballistics from a 5" 1911 should be pretty close to the same, I'd guess. Blew a primer from a box of factory Winchester 9x23 two weeks ago and had some primer flow with the others. Wasn't too worried. Just wondering out loud whether to go high pressure (in a fully supported chamber of course), or lower pressure w/higher vol.....

One big drawback to a bottlenecked cartridge is neck length stretch and the need for trimming. However, 45 ACP brass is pretty inexpensive and can be readily replaced. 45 Super brass could take more pressure for the times I need a little more umphh. The only supplier of dies and new brass that I know of is Dick Casull. Kind of has a monopoly on that little market. IF reloading supplies and brass remain that scarce, I'll make my personal prediction that it will die faster than most wildcat cartridges popularity. If 45 brass can be easily crimped down w/out having to go through the trouble of heat/stress relieving them, etc. I MIGHT consider it.....as well as others is my guess. Don't want to buy from the only source, would rather form my own.

Has anyone tried it yet?

Best regards,

eq
 
Suggest 9x23 as ideal (but you may need to examine more carefully why you get primer flow).

Way easier to reload...
 
That's what I was thinking too. 9x23 Shouldn't be much harder to reload than my 9mm parabellum, other than that the stroke might take a little more effort. I even wonder if the dies casull's selling are carbide or just plain steel?

As far as the primer flow goes, I'm going to guess that Win is using pistol primers instead of rifle primers for their white box load. That blown one had me wondering though.

I've shot hotter handloads of the 9x23 and if they're exceeding 1600fps, and some say 1700fps, out of a 5" barrel, I'm wondering what the benefit of going to the Casull is?

Anybody here at TFL try out the "38" Casull yet?
 
Shin-Tao,

Have you ever tried it? I'd guess that it wouldn't be too risky to reach 2000fps w/the right powder w/90grs. Would be interesting to see how a good 90gr hp would hold up in liquid medium and how much penetration w/hot loads. If I end up finally getting one, I'll try to get some strawberry flavored ballistic jello and maybe even try it hunting and post results. That's a little while down the road, but you remind me if I forget.

Best regards,

eq
 
I DON'T KNOW BUT...

I don't know about necking a 45 down to 356/357 diameter but, if you neck a 44 magnum case down to 357 you have a BANE AND DAVIS.

If you believe in Murphy's Law then anything that can happen will probablly have already been done.
 
Yes...it's called the 38Taurus! It will be out in next cpl months! something like a 125 gr pill at 1800 or 1900 fps!
 
By, "Has anyone tried it yet?", I meant has anyone here gotten this 1911, or shot this round yet; rather than, has any ballistician or manufacturer made a similar round? Allthesame, thanks for pointing out the caliber trivia. Its always an interesting subject. There's some knowledgeable folks here.

Captain,

Where did you hear about the 38 Taurus and did you get to shoot it yet?

Best regards to all,

eq
 
Good question. I don't see any practical differce for the masses. Personally though, I like the 9mm because I cast 9mm and don't want to go to .40/10mm. If the brass can be knecked down easily, plenty of reasonably priced 45ACP brass and more expensive Super brass for hot loads.

eq
 
Good question. I don't see any practical differce for the masses. Personally though, I like the 9mm because I cast 9mm and don't want to go to .40/10mm. If the brass can be knecked down easily, plenty of reasonably priced 45ACP brass and more expensive Super brass for hot loads.

eq
 
While it's true that .400 Cor-Bon is easily made by running .45 ACP brass through a .400 Cor-Bon die, the same isn't true about .40 Super. .40 Super is the same length as a 10mm auto case and uses either a small rifle or small magnum pistol primer. Has more case capacity and considerably more velocity (135gr. @1800 fps) than does the .400 Cor-Bon.

[Edited by WalterGAII on 02-05-2001 at 10:56 PM]
 
No, I haven't tried it. But I REALLY want to. I also want to top a .357Sig with a 90grn slug.

I need more velocity!!!
 
Walter,

Sounds like the 40 Super gets into some really high pressures (over 45k cup) if it needs rifle primers to keep from blowing. Same is true of other high pressure rounds in hot loadings like 9x23. Even had a blown primer of FACTORY Winchester white box when shooting a friends 9x23 1911. The 400 Corbon sounds like a cheaper way to go for reloaders, but doesn't seem to give much benefit over some of the smaller better established loads. They both give versatility, which is a plus for these new calibers. I guess they all have their benefits/drawbacks. Thanks for the info. The heads up on sizing them is interesting.

Shin Tao,

I wonder how much of an increase in velocity you could get out of a 5" barrel with the 90gr? I'll guess that it would be possible to go 200fps over the 124gr without much more pressure and the right powder. But that's just a guess. Much of that powder would probably go out the tube unused is another prediction. Which is one reason why 38 Casull is going with a 6" model from what I gather. It would still be fun to try. Would like to find out how it would affect penetration in livestock or white tail ready for the dinner table. Sounds like fun.

When it comes down to practicality, the 1911 is a pretty sturdy vehicle, but even with the advances in metalurgy, the tilting link system seems to reach a point of diminishing returns from what I hear about lugs, frame cracks, etc. w/hot and heavy loads. But then again, the handgun is to serve you, not the other way around. Some of the manufacturers will guarantee their recievers and slides as long as its ACP. If its used for 38super, for instance, they won't cover it since they know that its probably used for race gunners in major loads. If one is willing to invest in new major components, (ie. barrels and receivers), there's nothing wrong with going hot if its done safely, IMHO. There's alot to be said for the hot light ones as far as recoil, or lack thereof, is concerned.

Best regards,

eq
 
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