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Hart barrel break in
- Thread starter deepforks
- Start date
See this current thread for a bunch of folk saying you have to break in that barrel and about the same number of persons saying there is absolutely no need to:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541223
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541223
PVL,
Many barrel makers and benchrest champions do no break in. Add to that, we are talking about a 270, probably not weighted, stocked or scoped to shoot reliably shoot under .75".
A break in routine is fine, but I would rather just see you get it clean of fouling every 30-40 rounds. Often accuracy will head south around that point, but depending on your build, optic, load or skill, it is good to count rounds to 40.
Many barrel makers and benchrest champions do no break in. Add to that, we are talking about a 270, probably not weighted, stocked or scoped to shoot reliably shoot under .75".
A break in routine is fine, but I would rather just see you get it clean of fouling every 30-40 rounds. Often accuracy will head south around that point, but depending on your build, optic, load or skill, it is good to count rounds to 40.
Here is the FAQ page for Hart barrels. There is a short blurb on not needing to break in Hart barrels.
http://www.hartbarrels.com/faq.php
http://www.hartbarrels.com/faq.php
“The informed Vs the lazy”.
Or the misinformed VS the informed.
But the Emperor is naked.
I am sure most readers here know the kids story of the Emperors New Cloths.
It is a perfect example of an ugly part of human nature. Disinformation and misinformation are rampant in the world, and in the USA for sure. Unfortunately those in the gun industry are not immune to it. And those that are profiting from it are unfortunate those the start it.
In the days when most barrels had very visible machine marks in their bores and in the grooves lapping and “break ins” were common practices to gain a slicker finish in the bore, which would lead to better accuracy.
Now days when we look at most of the better barrels we see finishes down to 2000 micron. “Break-in” does NOT give a finer finish than this.
This post did start with the mention of a Hart barrel, which is a very good barrel.
So why do barrels fired a few times shoot better?
Ask any good rifle competitor.
We NEVER shoot a match with a perfectly clean bore. Always fire a few “fowlers” before you shoot for score. The coefficient of friction is different between a fouled bore and a clean bore, enough so to make the first shots be off a bit. They are not “breaking in the barrels” at each match. They are jest making sure everything is as consistent as it can be.
I have been a gunsmith and a shooter for MANY years now. I am neither lazy nor uninformed. I have a good reputation in this country as well as several other countries for my work and skills. In my life I have barreled or re-barreled over 1600 rifles.
I assure you, break in is NOT necessary on a Hart barrel.
Or the misinformed VS the informed.
But the Emperor is naked.
I am sure most readers here know the kids story of the Emperors New Cloths.
It is a perfect example of an ugly part of human nature. Disinformation and misinformation are rampant in the world, and in the USA for sure. Unfortunately those in the gun industry are not immune to it. And those that are profiting from it are unfortunate those the start it.
In the days when most barrels had very visible machine marks in their bores and in the grooves lapping and “break ins” were common practices to gain a slicker finish in the bore, which would lead to better accuracy.
Now days when we look at most of the better barrels we see finishes down to 2000 micron. “Break-in” does NOT give a finer finish than this.
This post did start with the mention of a Hart barrel, which is a very good barrel.
So why do barrels fired a few times shoot better?
Ask any good rifle competitor.
We NEVER shoot a match with a perfectly clean bore. Always fire a few “fowlers” before you shoot for score. The coefficient of friction is different between a fouled bore and a clean bore, enough so to make the first shots be off a bit. They are not “breaking in the barrels” at each match. They are jest making sure everything is as consistent as it can be.
I have been a gunsmith and a shooter for MANY years now. I am neither lazy nor uninformed. I have a good reputation in this country as well as several other countries for my work and skills. In my life I have barreled or re-barreled over 1600 rifles.
I assure you, break in is NOT necessary on a Hart barrel.
Match Grade barrels are lapped smooth, but when the chamber is cut to your caliber there may be some rough spots, cool down is more important. 1 round every 5 minutes, clean after 5 rounds & see what the barrel is doing, if you see alot of copper, shoot another 5 and clean, if copper is less then your done. That is what I do, hope I helped Chris
Read the link provided from hart carefully, and you will discover, it's not clear on this issue at all. Hart is saying your barrel will not give you any problems whatever that means. But that's not why people do this procedure, they do it for 2 reason. 1) They think it improves accuracy 2) They think it results in a barrel that holds less copper per given shot string.
I have no idea if it increases accuracy but if you read the next paragraph on the Hart link they actually say that you need to clean and shoot if you are retaining to much copper.
There has yet to be an actual study on this idea of barrel break in. Until then it's opinions even though some of them are expert opinion, still opinion.
I have no idea if it increases accuracy but if you read the next paragraph on the Hart link they actually say that you need to clean and shoot if you are retaining to much copper.
There has yet to be an actual study on this idea of barrel break in. Until then it's opinions even though some of them are expert opinion, still opinion.
Okay, so we don't start a fight let me just say this... Whether you believe in 'break-in' or not. It wont hurt anything, assuming you clean correctly and don't damage anything. It wont reduce barrel life, and it wont break anything.
Here's my suggestion. Take 1 or two shots, just to make sure the gun functions as intended. Clean between each shot. Now mount your optics, and begin getting your zero, cleaning between each shot. Eventually you'll want to test groups, and see how your new barrel groups. Shoot 3 shot groups and then clean. Repeat this a few times, using different ammo, to get a feel for how it shoots. There, that's 1/4 to 1/2 of 'break-in' and no ammo or barrel life was wasted. The most you have to lose is a couple dollars worth of cleaning supplies, and some free time.
Here's my suggestion. Take 1 or two shots, just to make sure the gun functions as intended. Clean between each shot. Now mount your optics, and begin getting your zero, cleaning between each shot. Eventually you'll want to test groups, and see how your new barrel groups. Shoot 3 shot groups and then clean. Repeat this a few times, using different ammo, to get a feel for how it shoots. There, that's 1/4 to 1/2 of 'break-in' and no ammo or barrel life was wasted. The most you have to lose is a couple dollars worth of cleaning supplies, and some free time.
I don't believe #1 to be true, but #2 can CERTAINLY hold true, in certain barrels. That said, a high quality match grade barrel, likely will not benefit as much as a lower grade hunting barrel. IMO the only way 'break-in' would affect accuracy directly, is if a burr of imperfection was stripping enough copper off each bullet, to throw it off balance. A broken in barrel MAY stay accurate for more shots, because it should be accumulating less copper fouling, which is known to degrade accuracy, over time, until you clean it out.1) They think it improves accuracy 2) They think it results in a barrel that holds less copper per given shot string.
Such barrels properly fit can be shot once every 20 seconds into 1/2 MOA at long range. Cool down doesn't apply in this instance.Match Grade barrels are lapped smooth, but when the chamber is cut to your caliber there may be some rough spots, cool down is more important.
Reamers typically used in them are sharp enough to leave no rough spots.
Has everyone read Hart on barrel break-in and what they list as cleaning instruction you have to follow.
Here they are
We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure, you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions.
Can I get my barrel too clean?
Yes, it is possible to get your barrel too clean, or to actually dry out the stainless steel. After brushing your barrel with a brass brush soaked with Hoppe's #9, Shooters Choice, or Butch's Bore Shine & Oil, several times and letting it soak for a few minutes, run a couple of dry patches in your barrel. Shoot a few more rounds, and if there is a considerable amount of cooper or fouling, then you may need to repeat the procedure. The key is, if your rifle is performing well, then you are probably getting it clean enough.
Isn't the cleaning instruction some sort of barrel break-in?
Here they are
We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure, you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions.
Can I get my barrel too clean?
Yes, it is possible to get your barrel too clean, or to actually dry out the stainless steel. After brushing your barrel with a brass brush soaked with Hoppe's #9, Shooters Choice, or Butch's Bore Shine & Oil, several times and letting it soak for a few minutes, run a couple of dry patches in your barrel. Shoot a few more rounds, and if there is a considerable amount of cooper or fouling, then you may need to repeat the procedure. The key is, if your rifle is performing well, then you are probably getting it clean enough.
Isn't the cleaning instruction some sort of barrel break-in?
According to Old roper's post, that is false.As was posted a little higher up, Hart feels that breaking in barrels is hogwash.
They don't claim it's 'hogwash' they claim it shouldn't be necessary on their barrels. That is likely due to it being a high quality match barrel. The way they write their statement, it actually seems like they DO believe in barrel 'break-in' but due to the quality of their barrels that it wont offer much or any improvement on their barrels. To me, that doesn't sound like they're calling 'break-in' hogwash at all, simply that their barrels are of such quality, that 'break-in' procedures, will likely make little to no improvement.
We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure, you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions