Handloads vs Factory loads

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

AL45

New member
Thee are those that feel that hand loads should not be used in self defense or hunting. I suppose they believe that a hand load is more likely to fail. Since I started reloading a few years ago, my son and I have sent roughly 4000 hanloads down range with only one issue and that was a delayed ignition on a .45 ACP. We have fired only about 150 factory loads during this same time and have had 2 issues. A misfire in a .223 (Winchester ammo) and a Prvi Partisan .308 that seemed to be excessive pressure. The recoil and noise seemed harsher, it completely missed the target and it wouldn't eject. Based on this, I would tend to trust my hand loads over factory. How do you fellows feel about the reliability of hand loads vs factory?
 
Hand loads can be more reliable when all your attention goes into them. You can have higher quality control standards than an automated machine. Personally I have loaded thousands of rounds(mostly 223 and 308) and have had 1 failure to launch. I have shot thousands of factory reloads and found there to be more duds. I would stick with hand loads if you have the time.
 
There is another reason that people don't want to use handloads for self defense. Prosecutors will use any little detail to sway a jury. They could try to make a case that you made extra lethal rounds because you wanted to kill someone.

Now, others will say that there's never been a case of that happening.

Massad Ayoob says the real reason is that if testimony depends on the distance you were from the dead guy, forensics can determine distance from the amount of residue on the dead guy by testing the same factory round in your gun. OTOH, if the round is one you made, there is no reliable way to know what load you used. Testing your other rounds won't prove anything about the rounds you used to shoot and they aren't just going to take your word for it, are they?
 
Thee are those that feel that hand loads should not be used in self defense or hunting.
Click to expand...
Avoid reloads for self defense to avoid legal problems.
I don't know of anyone saying don't use for hunting. All of my initial hand loading was for hunting. Only later did I get into other shooting sports.
 
There has never been a Self Defense shooting case where Handloaded ammunition was and issue. It is a myth and is sold by certain individuals that make a living selling their unsubstantiated opinion.
 
I can't think of any better situtations for which custom hand loads with the precise buller and load you want to use than self defense or hunting.

Nobody makes my CCW load for my .38 snubby but me. If I'm going to spend the money and time on a hunt, I want premium ammo developed for my gun by me.

The supposed legal ramifications of using handloads is an internet myth. If I had to guess is was spawned by LEOs who are not permitted to deviate from what their department approves. Any action by LEOs that is not standard department approved procedure can be a liability issue.
 
I don't buy center fire ammo unless there is a reason. I always thought this came from the manufacturers of factory ammo and the many stores that sell factory ammo. Many more than sell reloading supplies.
 
Massad Ayoob says the real reason is that if testimony depends on the distance you were from the dead guy, forensics can determine distance from the amount of residue on the dead guy by testing the same factory round in your gun. OTOH, if the round is one you made, there is no reliable way to know what load you used. Testing your other rounds won't prove anything about the rounds you used to shoot and they aren't just going to take your word for it, are they?
Click to expand...

I have heard him say this also in interviews. I would say he is pretty knowable on the subject, from Wikipedia "Ayoob has appeared as an expert witness in several trials. He has served as a part-time police officer in New Hampshire since 1972 and holds the rank of Captain in the Grantham, New Hampshire police department"
 
While Mr Ayoob may well be an experienced police officer, I don't see listed in his credentials being a forensic pathologist. Having the fired bullet and being able to examine in detail the wound would tell a lot about the shooting. Powder burns, remaining ammunition etc., would be able to fill in the blanks.

I have never read or heard about a case where reloaded ammunition was the key factor in a homicide, justified or not. If it was a bad shoot, the use of factory ammunition is not going to keep anyone out of jail. If it was legitimate self defense, the use of hand loaded ammunition is by itself not going to reverse a decision.
 
I carry handloads for SD. I do not ever hear of cc shootings in GA even going to court if it was clean and have NEVER seen a home invasion shooting here go to trial. I handload cc because I couldn't afford to properly train and test with train with store bought premium ammo, but I can buy hornaday bullets at 20$ per 100ct and practice all I want. another plus for andloading is finding out what is most accurate for your gun, I couldn't go out and buy a box of every premium ammo out there, I have just recently learned that Remington Golen Sabre's are more accurate than the hornadays I have been using, further testing needs to be done before I decide it's a "carry" load, but I can afford to do just that.

until I see a case that proves otherwise, I am 100% comfortable with handloads for SD, and not the case of the lady either shooting/not shooting herself in the head with a handload, a real SD case
 
If the shooting is justified, the ammo used won't matter at all.

Most components are available in factory loads, and you can't look at them and see any difference.

The only example I've seen of the scenario Ayoob describes was a murder/suicide case, and had nothing to do with self defense
 
There is another reason that people don't want to use handloads for self defense. Prosecutors will use any little detail to sway a jury.
Click to expand...

I live in California. The government here (as opposed to the majority of the citizens) are very unfriendly to the notion of civilian firearm ownership. This was explained to me during my CCW training (although I was already well aware). The trainer then recommended using factory ammo in the strongest terms.

I comply. Too bad, because my ammo is better than factory - as is most everybody's reading this.
 
I think a lot of the things Ayoob advises to do (stock EDC, no trigger jobs, no Punisher back plates, factory ammo, etc) are to minimize any factor that a liberal DA might try to use against you. I am sure we have all seen a clear case of justification in our eyes on the news where a liberal anti gun DA wants to prosecute... The jury would never convict (or grand jury would no bill), but it still cost a lot of time and money to the justified individual to go through the court system or just grand jury process. Don't forget the liberal anti gun news media and how they spin things - "he was using super custom nuclear killer bullets". Just my thoughts, I could be 100% wrong! I do a ton of reloading for my guns of choice, but my EDC is bone stock with factory ammo...
 
There has never been a Self Defense shooting case where Handloaded ammunition was and issue. It is a myth and is sold by certain individuals that make a living selling their unsubstantiated opinion.
Click to expand...

I have never read or heard about a case where reloaded ammunition was the key factor in a homicide, justified or not. If it was a bad shoot, the use of factory ammunition is not going to keep anyone out of jail. If it was legitimate self defense, the use of hand loaded ammunition is by itself not going to reverse a decision.
Click to expand...

If the shooting is justified, the ammo used won't matter at all.

Most components are available in factory loads, and you can't look at them and see any difference.

The only example I've seen of the scenario Ayoob describes was a murder/suicide case, and had nothing to do with self defense
Click to expand...

I no longer have the link mas had provided. Send him a email and he will gladly supply the links to the cases that reloads were brought up at trial.
 
There is another reason that people don't want to use handloads for self defense. Prosecutors will use any little detail to sway a jury. They could try to make a case that you made extra lethal rounds because you wanted to kill someone.

Now, others will say that there's never been a case of that happening.

Massad Ayoob says the real reason is that if testimony depends on the distance you were from the dead guy, forensics can determine distance from the amount of residue on the dead guy by testing the same factory round in your gun. OTOH, if the round is one you made, there is no reliable way to know what load you used. Testing your other rounds won't prove anything about the rounds you used to shoot and they aren't just going to take your word for it, are they?
GJSchulze is offline Report Post
Click to expand...
IIRC, Mr. Ayoob's example was not about a self defense situation but trying to make a determination what the distance the gun was from the body of the deceased to determine if a murder or a suicide had occurred.

I am one of those "show me" guys; I wanna see a case where a shooter, using handloads, was prosecuted because he used handloads. Not if he was justified for shooting, but a scenario where handloads were the determining factor...
 
Okay, I guess we're not going to discuss the OP's topic.

Anyone who is interested in the legal issues with using handloads for self defense can use the link I posted in post 16.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top