I was out testing a Makarov the other day, having a lot of fun shooting cheap Russian ammo. Our club has a nice "action pistol" range set up, about 35 yards deep and 20 yards wide, with tall backstops all around. I was blasting away when suddenly looked around and realized that this was WAY closer than I ever wanted to be to an armed opponent in a gunfight. I immediately went out and bought a new AR-15! Have you ever had this feeling come over you?
Handgun Revelation!
- Thread starter Conan
- Start date
Conan,
I know what you mean. However, according to everything I've read, a gunfight will prob happen within conversational distances! How many civilian gunfights happen at distances over 30 feet? Unfortunately, the chance of using that AR in a fight are so much smaller than using a handgun. I've been spending a lot of time reading as much as I can about situational awareness BEFORE a fight starts. I figure I'd rather stop the sh!t before it starts...
I know what you mean. However, according to everything I've read, a gunfight will prob happen within conversational distances! How many civilian gunfights happen at distances over 30 feet? Unfortunately, the chance of using that AR in a fight are so much smaller than using a handgun. I've been spending a lot of time reading as much as I can about situational awareness BEFORE a fight starts. I figure I'd rather stop the sh!t before it starts...
Gino,
Good point! The fact that civilian gunfights ususally happen at VERY close range is why I, like you, place more empahsis on being "aware and prepared" than worrying about which gun/caliber is better/enough/too much/one-shot-stopper ad nauseum. I've also made it a point to stay up to speed on the CCW/self-defense laws of my home state.
Good point! The fact that civilian gunfights ususally happen at VERY close range is why I, like you, place more empahsis on being "aware and prepared" than worrying about which gun/caliber is better/enough/too much/one-shot-stopper ad nauseum. I've also made it a point to stay up to speed on the CCW/self-defense laws of my home state.
I had to chuckle at your response, 9x19, because I had the same thought. I clicked on this thread thinking for sure it was a thread about Glocks. I know I had my revelation with them! Owned everything else, now Glocks are all I can bring myself to carry.
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited July 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited July 25, 2000).]
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Conan - You have indeed "Seen the light".
Always bring a rifle (or shotgun) to a gunfight.
And ideally - bring a couple chainguns and indirect fire as well!
[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited July 25, 2000).]
Always bring a rifle (or shotgun) to a gunfight.
And ideally - bring a couple chainguns and indirect fire as well!
[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited July 25, 2000).]
Young Kiwi
New member
Don't worry you soon start to realise that the distance you engage at with a rifle is still close.
This may well start you think about the stopping power of your AR15. hmmm..... they are still close, is a .223 enough ? I better get a .308 to bet sure.
The FN FAL is my personal favourate
This may well start you think about the stopping power of your AR15. hmmm..... they are still close, is a .223 enough ? I better get a .308 to bet sure.
The FN FAL is my personal favourate
Conan, that's, um - "CMOS" 
Although I have HK's and Sigs, I still prefer the HK's overall. They just seem to fit my hand like they were made for me. The placement of the slide release and decocker are perfect for me - better ergonomics than the Sigs IMO. I do like the Sig triggers though.
I also used to have an Italian SS 92F. Sold it only because the trigger really stunk (should have kept it!!
)
Try some of the HK's if you get the chance - and be prepared to buy...
CMOS
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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!
The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
[This message has been edited by CMOS (edited July 26, 2000).]
Although I have HK's and Sigs, I still prefer the HK's overall. They just seem to fit my hand like they were made for me. The placement of the slide release and decocker are perfect for me - better ergonomics than the Sigs IMO. I do like the Sig triggers though.
I also used to have an Italian SS 92F. Sold it only because the trigger really stunk (should have kept it!!
) Try some of the HK's if you get the chance - and be prepared to buy...
CMOS
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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!
The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
[This message has been edited by CMOS (edited July 26, 2000).]
riddleofsteel
New member
preach on brother, preach on
the handgun is a LARGE compromise. however, i doubt that your AR-15 will be with you when you really need it unless you are attacked in you house or vehicle. i remember the weekend i was camping in a game preserve area four weeks after hunting season closed. i was looking for postseason sign in a really hot area i found during the last week of the season. i left my knockaround buddy, a parkerized SKS with a folding stock in the truck due to game regulations. however i was packing a concealed .357 mag revolver snubbie. a couple of miles from the road a group of dogs started following me and even though i shouted at them and threw sticks and rocks they continued to close thier distance. long story short i had to shoot one of the most aggressive of them as he had run me up on a large rock trying to bite me.
just one day a handgun in the fannypack beat the rifle in the truck. food for thought.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited July 26, 2000).]
the handgun is a LARGE compromise. however, i doubt that your AR-15 will be with you when you really need it unless you are attacked in you house or vehicle. i remember the weekend i was camping in a game preserve area four weeks after hunting season closed. i was looking for postseason sign in a really hot area i found during the last week of the season. i left my knockaround buddy, a parkerized SKS with a folding stock in the truck due to game regulations. however i was packing a concealed .357 mag revolver snubbie. a couple of miles from the road a group of dogs started following me and even though i shouted at them and threw sticks and rocks they continued to close thier distance. long story short i had to shoot one of the most aggressive of them as he had run me up on a large rock trying to bite me.
just one day a handgun in the fannypack beat the rifle in the truck. food for thought.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited July 26, 2000).]
Oooooh...I wanna Fal or M1A! Gots no money. 
OTOH....how often you gonna carry the AR or M1A into the grocery store with ya?
Handgun beat begging or worse any ol day!
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Satanta, the Whitebear
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My</A> Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
OTOH....how often you gonna carry the AR or M1A into the grocery store with ya?
Handgun beat begging or worse any ol day!
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Satanta, the Whitebear
Sat's Realm: <A HREF="http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html
My" TARGET=_blank>http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html
My</A> Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
All of you guys make good points! (Sorry about the misspell CMOS!, I usually proofread better than that!) Anyway, I have my carry piece (Colt Mustang), and will agree it's much better than nothing. My point here (Nomex On!) is that I see these IDPA guys set up their courses with 15 "targets" that they have to engage. If I have 15 armed BGs and a handgun, I'm gonna run! I know it's good to practice with your piece, but your chances of surviving any of the courses I've seeen are nil (if the BGs were armed and shooting back). I think it would be fun to try out, but I don't think it realistic training for any "real world" situation. Ready for Flames!
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An unarmed man is a subject.
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An unarmed man is a subject.
No flames at all Conan. The point in that type of exercises (IDPA) is that you train as though your opponent(s) are very good, not average.
It's a simple training principle. If you can reasonably well rspond to multiple threats then 1 or 2 opponents will not be as overwhelming.
Be safe.
CMOS
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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!
The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
It's a simple training principle. If you can reasonably well rspond to multiple threats then 1 or 2 opponents will not be as overwhelming.
Be safe.
CMOS
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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!
The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
Handguns rule, so get real good with the one you love. (You know, the 100% reliable one.)
And don't knock training by "fun"; IDPA and USPSA are the best (free) training grounds for gun-handling and self-confidence.
And no, neither are very 'practical'....
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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
And don't knock training by "fun"; IDPA and USPSA are the best (free) training grounds for gun-handling and self-confidence.
And no, neither are very 'practical'....
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"All my ammo is factory ammo"