Handgun Newb, Question about Accuracy

S

sigboy

Inactive
Hey all,

I'm a new owner of a Sig Sauer P250 9MM. This is my first handgun, and I must say I love the gun. I've fired about 100 rounds through it, and it's been very reliable thus far.

However, I do have one issue and I'm wondering if it's more likely me than the gun. The first 30 rounds I could fire a group about 6 inches tight, with a couple stragglers, at 30 feet. I'm anal and decided to break the gun down and clean it. I went out again and now my group is just as tight (if 6 inches can be considered tight ;) ) but it's very low and to the right. This happened with the last 70 rounds I fired. I plan on going out again tomorrow to see how things go. I'm just wondering if this is most likely an issue with me and my lack of skills, or if it could be an issue with the sights, or even barrel alignment? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the pep talk rootcanal. ;-)

That's kinda what I figured. I'll report back in another 400 rounds.
 
Try shooting from a supported position. In other words, try using a rest of some sort. You can do this by leaning your arm up against a stable structure, or by sitting down and laying your forearm, or even the pistol itself, into a bench rest. This will isolate the movement of your arm, and your wrist if you rest the pistol itself, and should give you a better idea of the mechanical accuracy of the pistol.

It's most likely your technique that's causing the shots to hit low. You might be flinching - try dry firing the pistol to see whether the sights are thrown off when you pull the trigger. They should maintain their alignment through your trigger pull.
 
That's great advice Casimer, thanks! I'm planning a trip to the range tomorrow and plan to pop off a few hundred rounds. I'll see how things go.
 
"...if 6 inches can be considered tight..." It's consistent and that is good. You're doing fairly well being consistent.
You having any problems reaching the trigger with your finger? A pistol's fit to your hand is essential.
Have a look at this. http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Pistol_Shot_Analysis.pdf
For the group size, you need to try a box of as many brands of ammo as you can to find the ammo your pistol shoots best and cycles the action. Deal with one thing at a time though.
Dry firing is a very good and very old training technique for trigger control and sight picture. Make sure the pistol is empty, then practice aiming and pulling the trigger at home. Door knobs make good dry fire practice targets. Or put a paper target on a wall or door where the lighting is good in your home. Pull the trigger, slowly, while concentrating on keeping the front sight on target. Sit the black on top of the front sight with the front sight even all around. Look at this. http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/pistol_sighting.pdf
 
Tons of great info T. O'Heir, thank you!

I'm not having any issues reaching the trigger. The fit of the gun is one of the reasons I got attached to this Sig, it fits very well in my hand. Thanks for the link resources, I'll check those out and I'll definitely try the dry firing exercise which sounds like a valuable exercise.

I'll be sure to take numerous brands of ammo tomorrow when I hit the range and see what kind of results I get out of each.
 
Hi. Dry firing is kind of fun too. Shooting club matches, even when new is good too. Don't worry about being good. Competitive shooting is great fun.
 
rounds

"I'm planning a trip to the range tomorrow and plan to pop off a few hundred rounds. I'll see how things go."
IMO, that's a lot of shooting for one session. I know that many shooters will do as you intend and run through a couple or a few hundred rounds in a range session. I've never been an advocate of that for serious practice. I don't see that a shooter can concentrate in a beneficial way on that many shots in a session.
Shoot slow fire. Take your time and learn what is happening each time you squeeze the trigger. Limit extended or rapid strings until you are confident and consistent with precision shooting.
I'm not a Master classified shooter but I do have an Expert rating and this practice regimen works for me. The bulk of any practice is precision shooting. I rarely shoot more than 100 rounds in a session, regardless of caliber.
Pete
 
Congrats on your Sig. Its not uncommon for people to start pulling off target after extended shooting sessions. Are you shooting rt. handed? If so, pay close attention when squeezing trigger that you are not squeezing rest of hand harder at the same time thus pulling your shot. Practice previous mentioned dry firing making sure you squeeze trigger moving nothing but your trigger finger and not applying more pressure to rest of grip with other fingers. Thats a big part of trigger control. Goodluck!
 
Thank you all, it's been a wealth of information that you've provided. The biggest challenge for me, will be patience! ;-) I'll keep you all posted on my progress.

Are there many members from the Reno area?

Thanks!
 
I`m not but I`m ready for a vacation and if you`ll send me a round trip ticket, I can arrange my time off work. Also, you supply the ammo and we`ll shoot till we got blisters on our eyelids:D:D:D
 
Went to the range today, fired about 150 rounds and loved every minute of it. As the day progressed, my shots moved back to the center -- woohoo! I had the occasional straggler, but all in all, I was shooting within the center 6 inch ring. Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. The Pistol Shot Analysis PDF proved invaluable!

Turns out, I was jerking/snatching the trigger. I'm going to work with the dry fire exercises and keep practicing. I sure appreciate all of the suggestions!

Thanks!
 
sigboy - One thing I notice about new handgun shooters at the range is that they hold the gun with a death grip. I can see they're holding it as tightly as possible, and it is shaking all over the place. They think that if they hold it hard & stiff, it won't kick and make them look weak or something. Let it kick, it doesn't hurt. You'll be surprised how quickly you can get back on target even with a pretty loose grip. That is one of the great things about autos. Hold it tighter than loose, but looser than tight. Snug, but not really using any muscle to hold it, if that makes sense.

Another great training tool is to buy a package of snap caps. Load them randomly in your magazines. When you hit the one that goes "snap" instead of "BANG" you'll notice where your front sight went. Did you flinch and jerk it down? Are you pulling or pushing it one way or the other?

If you notice you're flinching with the above exercise, try this: Buy a box of 44 Magnum and rent or borrow a 44 Magnum revolver. Try your best not to flinch with that. If you get anywhere close not to flinching with a 44 Magnum, you'll be relieved after the first shot of 9mm, 40, 45, etc. and you won't flinch at all. (I own a 44 Magnum now, so I can do this whenever I want) Flinching is all mind over matter, but it takes a lot of shooting to beat it sometimes. The more your gun kicks, the harder it is to beat.
 
I'm not so sure I like that isosceles stance picture. Is it just the camera angle, or is he really leaning back? He also looks uncomfortably locked up like a nervous shooter. Leaning back leaves the shooter out of balance and group size suffers. Don't do that. Get a good two handed grip on the gun and point it down (unloaded, please - the only time a loaded gun should point steeply down is when holstered). Stand straight up like you normally would, facing the target. Now bring the gun straight up to a comfortable position without rolling the shoulders. There's your stance.

Please do this with the gun unloaded. I don't want to hear any replies about toe reattachment surgery. ;)
 
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stance

And then there's this: Brian Zins - eight time National Pistol Champion
brianzins.jpg
 
Hey sigboy. Welcome!

Turns out, I was jerking/snatching the trigger. I'm going to work with the dry fire exercises and keep practicing. I sure appreciate all of the suggestions!
Click to expand...

Ain't nothing like the movies and TV, eh? They make it look so easy! :D What helped me out when I started shooting was taking it as slow as possible. I would squeeze the trigger s-l-o-w-l-y until the hammer fell, all the while keeping an eagle eye trained and focused on the front sight. Sometimes I would go so slow that my arm would get fatigued from holding the gun :o That's how slow I took it. 9 time out of 10, though, if my sights were over the target, I'd get a pretty good hit. As I learned trigger control and better sight picture, I eventually got faster and much better at pulling that trigger without disturbing the sights. There's always room for improvement for me, but I'm confident in my shooting skills enough to defend myself at this point and that's what matters most to me. (Target shooting comes a close second though!)

This may not work for everyone, but it was helpful to me so thought I'd share. Try it and see if it helps.

Good luck, have fun and stay safe!
 
stance

"One handed holds are useless in real life for the average civilian shooter."
Not to hijack the thread.....but why would that be so?
Pete
PS: The pistol shot analysis that was mentioned ("proved invaluable") is predicated on one handed shooting. At least some of that was taken from the AMU guide - Zins' old outfit.
 
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We shoot one handed depending on the situation. Combat shooting at close range we don't even aim we hip shoot, 3-7 yards if trained you don't need to aim to hit a man center of mass. 15 yards is point shooting and 25 yards is aimed fire.
It used to be taught you crossed your weak arm over your chest to protect you from incoming rounds. Before vests it was thought this protected your vitals with arm and bone to weaken the projectile before it hit your body.
 
accuracy...

If you're hitting down to the right --- you're probably jerking the trigger. Don';t fire 400 more doing that it can be hard to correct
 
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